How much impact did the Community Event have on NBA Live 08?
October 8, 2007 by pastapadre
Back at the end of June when EA held the NBA Live 08 Community Event there were advantages and disadvantages to having it take place that early in the development process. On one hand it was at a point where not everything had been implemented and was still in the midst of intense tweaking. It was very much unfinished as compared to what is usually seen at community days which are generally representative of the final product. However having come in at that time allowed for producer interaction and feedback that could be directly acted upon for this year’s release.
At the Madden 08 Community Day it was evident to me right away that the high rate of fumbles, injuries, and overpowered kickoffs were big problems. But at that point there was nothing that could be done about it. That is the downside to attending them that close to the release of the game. It is more about collecting information and impressions and getting some input towards the next year’s version unlike the opportunity we were given for Live.
When I wrote up my Live impressions from the event I stated that it would be interesting to look back at it following release and see how much of an impact it had. EA would either get credit for taking this route or they would receive deserved criticism if it seemed that it had amounted to nothing. So lets look at some of the points I brought up and how they turned out.
The #1 issue was with the interior defense. Actually it was the near complete lack of it. Offensive players were able to use a wide array of moves for easy scores, in most cases via dunk. That led to shot percentages generally in the 55-75% range even on Superstar difficulty. It was really frustrating because there was basically nothing you could do to stop it except hope to draw an offensive foul.
This was a known issue when we arrived for the event and it was incredibly frustrating to deal with. However with the final versions things have improved greatly. Players still get pushed out of the way a little too easily, but as a defender if you put your body on them and use the right stick to get your hands up you have a decent chance of forcing a tough shot that could be missed.
Shot percentages have shown to be quite realistic now. I’m generally finding between 42-50% is where things end up. And that isn’t due to cheap misses, it feels pretty natural in terms of which shots go in vs which ones don’t. This has turned out to be one of the most pleasant surprises in just how right it feels.
Playing defense on the perimeter wasn’t as much of a problem but it was difficult to stick on a player. A quick guard could get by you nearly every time…You were more likely to move away accidentally and end up out of position.
A comment I made at the event was that you were better playing off the ball and letting the CPU take over which shouldn’t be the case. While the defensive assist is an option, I’ve found that to be good for only aligning a defender, you don’t want to play man on man defense while holding down the assist. It is more effective to just try and stay in good position and use the right stick low to help. Also if you use the assist it switches who you’re controlling automatically to the on-ball defender which some people may not want.
Against the CPU it can still be difficult to contain the top PGs in the league from driving, however against other users it seems more properly balanced.
While the rebounding in general and going for loose balls was improved greatly, there were still some things that stood out to me. There were too many offensive rebounds, and even more apparent off missed free throws. There was a lack of agressiveness from some of the players. There would be a couple attempting to get the ball, while others might just stand around.
The rebounding still has its issues, as sometimes it seems that players will stand around and let the ball hit the ground before grabbing it. There also seems to only be one or two players that make a strong effort to go up and get the ball on most occasions. It just feels very inconsistent. Offensive rebounds are toned down and there isn’t the problem with rebounds off missed free throws.
Alley-oops were too easy to execute, even in situations where it shouldn’t have been attempted like to players in traffic. There were a couple times where the ball sailed out of bounds, but the success rate was too high.
There is more risk involved with the alley-oops but they still aren’t right. If you accidentally hit the RB and throw one up you’ll actually have a decent opportunity at a player going up for it and scoring in an unnatural fashion. So not only is the level of success a little high, but having it on the same button as the icon passing makes little sense. It also is somewhat unresponsive. I’ve had fast breaks and hit the button but the players just stop running before the ball is even be tossed up.
The spacing along the out of bounds line was too tight and also a little difficult to see at the bottom of the screen. You didn’t feel comfortable there because you’d get called for stepping out of bounds. It basically took away shooting threes from the corner, unless you went straight up after passing to a player who had been set there by the CPU.
Well this is something that has been taken care of. I’ve seen mention of players appearing to step out of bounds but not be called for it, I guess that may be a side effect of making it so you aren’t stepping out accidentally all the time.
The fouls were a little sketchy. Offensive vs defensive fouls seemed mixed up at times. There was also a high % of made shots off mid-air contact including when fouled. Meanwhile reach-in fouls on the perimeter as players attempted for steals were too rare.
This has been improved somewhat. Offensive fouls can be interpreted as the correct call but the animations don’t really show it. I usually don’t know who the foul is on until it is displayed on the screen via text or I see who has the ball. Haven’t seen as many made shots off of non-foul contact but there are still some. There are at least occasional reach-in fouls now and more risk to attempting steals.
Some more random thoughts from then till now:
The 60fps, off-ball movement, and floor spacing are the best aspects of the game as they were at the event. Those things shouldn’t be ignored because they have an influence on everything.
The Go-To Moves turned out really well and hopefully more players have their unique moves next year. They are well balanced (not automatic) and add a level of authenticity.
The icon passing seems a little less responsive now, I had more success with it back then. Not sure why that is since I believe it was set up the same way as it is now (with it necessary to hold the RB down for a second before they come up). There needs to be a dedicated button for it. A perfect way to do that is to get rid of the Hot Spots from the LB completely or to hold the LB in to pull them up and put the alley-oop button there in its place.
The Live team decided to remove the separate buttons for layups and dunks this year, citing how the game had to respond to those commands even if the situation didn’t call for them. So if someone hit the dunk button from 3pt land they would go into a ridiculous looking animation. Despite this they kept a separate button for dunks and layups and one for jump shots. So you still have the situation of someone accidentally using the wrong button on shots. I don’t really have a strong feeling either way on having just one universal shot button, but it would make sense for the same reasons they took away the one for only dunks and the one for only layups.
The lack of any impactful fatigue is something that the hardcore community is disappointed about but I don’t see as much of a problem. Most people, in five minute quarters, don’t want to worry about making many substitutions. This is especially the case with online games. It would be a good thing to have a little more fatigue shown next year though since it feels nonexistent. But with lengthier quarters and slider adjustments the fatigue can mean more.
I wrote a lot about the Hot Spots. How I liked the additional shooting ratings (14 as opposed to previously having only 3) but disliked the visual display of them. As it turns out no one really seems to pull them up anyway while playing. It is more important to get open shots than it is to shoot from red zones. I had suggested at the very least to tone down the colors which unfortunately wasn’t done, but I didn’t expect any changes to happen.
The FIBA addition, even though it isn’t fully fleshed out yet, was a very nice bonus that they got in. They signed the exclusive deal too late into the process to add in things like the trapezoidal lane, FIBA rules, and more than the eight teams. Those should all be taken care of next year.
Online play was discussed although there was not much insight into it other than being told about the leagues. The one thing which had been mentioned was the effort that was being put into making sure it runs well with as minimal lag as possible and consistent frame rate. It is safe to say that they succeeded in that regard as the online aspect has been the best of any EA Sports game to date. See my full online play thoughts and follow-up.
The game was just flat out fun playing head to head at the event and it remains that way. It seems to play better against other users, but that could be partially attributed to how I enjoy playing that way more than playing the CPU no matter the game. Despite that both myself and Shawn from 5w-g commented that it seems to play a lot better head to head.
For next year (outside of the obvious necessary improvements to gameplay) additions of a Superstar type mode and online co-op could make the game great. Those are perfectly suited for a basketball game.
Of course some if not most of the things I went over would’ve been addressed naturally through the course of the development cycle, but it does feel as if they truly listened and took into consideration the feedback that was given. That bodes well for Live 09 and beyond, and hopefully we will see more community events take place earlier in the process after the success of this one.
pasta one of the big issues with the game is the fact you can only control 1 team.Since that is the case with Live it forced me to the direction of 2k where you can control up to 8 teams.Also they need to work on camera angels.In 2k you have at least a dozen compared to four with live.
wat do u mean . at once?
The problem with live is the locking of the features. For $60 you shouldn’t see some fucking padlock on a feature suggesting you could do this if we decided to let you. Fucking absolutely silly on EA’s part especially when they need every little detail to be right to edge out 2K. Once again EA is it’s own worst enemy.
I agree with Art on this one, I really got into this game thinking it will be great but it has been a total let down. I am not saying that 2K8 is leaps and bounds better then Live. Personally, I would have taken NBA 2K7 with updated rosters. This years crop of pro basketball games isnt that good, hopefully college games will be better.
Im with Artoficial, EA is not very detail oriented, or user friendly at times. Not to say that they don’t put a lot of effort into their games but they seem to always miss the little things that make a big difference.
I also disagree with DLane with 2k8 not being that good. No matter what title you play you will always want more, but it’s safe to say that up to this point NBA 2k8 is arguably the most realistic SPORTS title ever made. At this point, I do not see the Live series taking back full or even 50% control of the basketball gaming market. Live underestimates how much basketball fans really appreciate a well crafted basketball game. Live 08 has barely enough depth (and i don’t mean gimmicks), to keep young kids and impartial NBA fans interested. Madden is as only as big as it is because of the harcore football fan and well, they bought out the competition with the NFL license purchse. The NBA 2k series speaks to that same kind of hardcore Basketball fan and that is why they will not be dethrowned anytime soon.
To all you Live 08 owners, enjoy it, its a good game.
Just know that there is a much better one out their.
I do think that Live 08 has made some great strides in the right direction this year and I love the game. The go-to moves make that last minute clutch shot so much more realistic when its in the hands of your star.
Yes, it does have its flaws so hopefully EA can flesh out the details in next year’s installment; until then, I’ll just enjoy this “good” game
I agree with Artoficial and others……but the number 1 thing that bothers me is when the ball goes through the rim…doesn’t matter if it’s a swish or hitting the rim then falling, IT JUST GOES TO SLOW! do they even watch NBA games? it really takes a good 1 sec to go through just bothers me. I like live this year but then again there is a better game on the market that is more realistic. I love both games but I want the excitement/atmosphere of the crowd/nice flow/etc….and 2k8 gives all this to me….nba live seems dull not excitement at all….but I still thing it’s a very very good improvement from last year.
EA dosent care about the community…they care about stock-holders & echo chambers…insiders seem more interested in axcess than pointing out problems…EA has lost all credibilty with many long-time fans & many look at EA games as glossy add ons with little to no depth…
as you can tell im still very disappointed about game testing policies & those that can do something dont seem to call EA out on the shoddy work they are doing.
60 bucks for a broken game
have to say it 2k8 best sports game in a long while…
lookin forword to FIFA08 w/ fingers crossed.
stay true all
ea is a failure, i really really hope they read these posts, and realise how bad they have done. id like to know the names of the people behind the sceens making the game. you should be fired! absolutely discusting, or they could come out and tell us this, “look, this is an arcade game, for the kids to play around with and we are not the type of in depth game developers that you all wish for, same goes for fifa, an some of the other titles, because we have to meet deadlines and work on so many games, we cant give you what you want, sorry!” lets face it, its the small companies that are going to grow and eventually compete with ea on a larger scale. konami, 2k8 these guys are gonna run you out of business. to the guys at ea, ..idiots!
Hey ,
I have gotten some feed back regarding some of the issues. Like if and when they are going to make and put out a patch to fix things. Like the fact we cant edit players gear?
DR. Logic,
I don’t want to come off as bashing EA for their efforts. But I don’t want to over praise them for making a better game than previous years, a blind monkey should have been able to improve what they put out last year.
The point is when you pick up both of these games a game measure to tell which holds your interest is the one you tend to log more hours on. As fun as NBA Live is 2K8 has so much more depth than Live even comes close to. Mind you I play in dynasty/assosiation modes because I like all the stress and challenges that comes with those modes. Note to EA, the small things do matter. Both games have their issues, EA locking the ability to edit and players clearly running out of bounds and not being called. 2K8 isn’t safe from the same criticisms of backsliding ether. I have noticed on to many occasions plays driving to the basket and passing right through another play (at this stage in the game this should be a thing of the past). 2K really needs to get a handle on it’s iso moves, I tend to feel lucky for having pulled one off rather than knowing a move and executing it. For this reason I think EA wins that battle easily. I also think after all the uproar over the hot spots LIVE has the better solution and shot % tend to be more realistic. The cell bars in 2K8 sound like the better idea but what does it mean when the bars are full (yellow) and my Ray Allen can’t hit more the 20% of his shots?
Live is a fun pick up and play type game and has some nice features. On the other hand 2K8 is intoxicating when you get into the assosiation mode. It’s a tuff game, stressful, addicting and fun all at the same time. I’m playing in association mode (all-star level) with the Celtics and I’m only 2-6, bad start. I think it’s 2K’s difficulty that becomes addicting. With live I’m playing at the highest level and I just feel like it’s not the same challenge.
I like both games I just think 2K is more sim quality than Live.
it’s not the fact that community days are positive and negative, it’s just the fact that they never show effort in what they do. When you look at madden it looks and plays like it was made in a basement. Glitches upon glitches upon glitches as well with the other mediocre titles that they release. And the thing that is so fustraiting when i use to buy their “games” is the fact that they miss the simple stuff. that and question how in the world do they release a broken game every single year.But this is the only company that I know that pretty much this is the only company who has their fans know how to make a game more than the company themselves.
Its just sad that every year an EA game comes out, (be it NBA live, Madden,FIFA, etc…) all people say is, I hope next year they’ll fix this, do that, and change this. EA never gets it right. Every year there are significant problems with their games. I’m starting to think that making incomplete games is part of their business plan. If they market enough to impartial people they will still buy their games, but at some point, and i think that point has passed, the consumer has to wise up and stop getting swindled by EA’s glitz and glamour. I’ve been playing EA games since EA arrived, and this year sealed EA’s fate in my eyes. They will be around for a while but only because of past credibility that is all but used up. I have a feeling that EA’s reign as champion of sports gaming has begun its steady decline and any trust and respect that I once held for EA has completley evaporated.
“Well this is something that has been taken care of. I’ve seen mention of players appearing to step out of bounds but not be called for it, I guess that may be a side effect of making it so you aren’t stepping out accidentally all the time.”
Letting players step out of bounds without being called for it is not a fix for spacing problems that lead to players stepping out of bounds.
The major problem with this game is animations. It allows realistic looking shots, but not realistic play. Things such as fouls, out of bounds, etc. are better to be based on the real, in-game physics. If player 1 touches player 2 as he shoots, then it’s a foul. Detect the collission, call the foul. Add %’s for referees catching fouls, so they don’t catch all of them and catch more done by a rookie to a superstar.
Why do everyone hate on EA?
They make you addicted to this stuff!
They release a crap game but yet, you are still addicted to it!
Thats the genius behind the games made by EA.
They might make an unrealistic games but the games they make are enjoyable to play and that is why players come back for more each and every year.
If they made a seriously bad game, we would know about it. But the games they release every year are just as good as any game they will ever release.
I don’t know about you guys but when I play 2K, it feels like a kiddie game. NBA Live is for the hardcore simmers, who actually care about the realistic stat sheet. NBA 2k series make games easier to score and plays more like an arcade shoot’em air plane game.
I admit, NBA Live frustrates us every year because it is not PERFECT. It is frustrating when things dont work the way it should work. But at the end of the day, we know we can not get everything. We just live with what we got and it is just enjoyable enough to play so what is the problem?
“NBA Live is for the hardcore simmers, who actually care about the realistic stat sheet. “
Like 6 APG for league assist leaders?
LETS BE HONEST WE ALL LIKE LIVE BUT IT JUST ISNT THT GOOD! IM SAD THINKING ABOUT GETTING 2K.
James,
you obviously haven’t read any of the other comments cause you have everything ass backwards.
It’s JUST a GAME.
YH A GAME THT COSTS 60 BUCKS FOR A SYSTEM U PAID 400 PLUS DOLLARS FOR DESERVE BETTER BASKETBALL FAN!
James,
you obviously haven’t played 2K8. I’m sorry to disappoint you but I own both games and you have everything backwards. 2K plays more like a sim. Consider the fact that fatigue plays a major role along with team chemistry and the new player personality types makes 2k about as sim as you’re going to get. LIVE this year after making the same game year after year manages to muck up the simplest of things “player fatigue” which should matter to any true fan of sim basketball. Sorry but that mentality of thinking fatigue doesn’t factor into the strategy of the game is what gives LIVE an arcade feel.
I don’t know what level you’ve played 2k8 on but I play on all-star and I’ve been playing the series for years and this version has been the most difficult do to the extremely intelligent AI. I think you really need to sit down with 2K8 and explore ALL it’s feature before you start calling a game thats clearly the closest to a sim an arcade style game.
Well said Artoficial. I have no idea what basketball game James was playing, 2K8 is hardly some arcade “air plane” game. That’s laughable.