The evolution of sports gaming communities
by 
A significant shift has occurred in the way the sports community interacts over the past two plus years. It has gone from a time when fan sites were prominent. Those such as Madden Nation and Madden Mania provided opportunities for people to extend the enjoyment they got out of a particular game.
Those two sites, that really drove the community for not only Madden but other sports games, have since become part of larger media sites.
With that shift the goals have changed to providing things such as reviews, news coverage, and strategies.
Whether that is a positive or negative thing really comes down to each individual. It is what it is and some people will find that more useful while others will desire the way the sites used to be constructed and controlled.
Having been on both the community and media sides I’ve always been intrigued by the vast differences between the two. What media sites provide is not anywhere near the same as what community sites can provide. Media is a very controlled environment while community sites are more open. However media has resources that community sites simply don’t. There is that trade-off there. And maybe the bothersome thing is that so much has shifted to the media side that now there really isn’t the balance that used to be there.
At this point I can’t really blame someone for not wanting to run a community site in the traditional sense of the “fan site”. When all the supposed “community” does is moan and complain it isn’t a very rewarding experience for someone to deal with all the time. And as a community site it isn’t being done for money but to give back to the community. If it isn’t fun to do it isn’t worth it. It also seems with the current state of the community being so negative and so entrenched in the places they already reside that the opportunity to build a site from the ground up isn’t really there.
Now I think you look to places such as EA Sports World and what is being done there for the new type of community that will come to fruition. It also seems more likely that individuals will emerge rather than sites.
Things have changed drastically over the past couple years and they’ll continue to evolve. How it will be, where people will turn to, and how the communication between companies and the fans will change are all interesting things to follow. It’s something I monitor and by doing so try to provide the best mix here at PP.
So what do you think? Do you like the direction that sites are headed? Do you prefer the more traditional fan site that seems to be headed towards extinction? Or do you like the hybrid sites that combine elements of both?
December 26, 2007 at 10:37 am
It’s crazy how things have changed in the last couple of years. I use to come to MM and MN a few years ago but those sites aren’t the same as they use to be.
December 26, 2007 at 10:44 am
it is funny that MM/DSM said how theyd never sell out and how they were for the little people and then they go and do it and ignore that ever took place. i still go there some but probably not anymore after that.
i dont know if i like it because those sites were so good for early impressions and now they just give the same stuff that others do. but at least there is this site that has a lot of variety of information and opinion even if i dont agree with i really like reading.
December 26, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I don’t personally like the directions most sites are headed in. I think its very hard now to get an honest review of a game. Be it a sports game or just a game in general. This is a site I’m glad to have found because I do feel that there is nothing but an honest opinion of the games covered here. Sites should provide information as well as the writers opinions but if pressure comes in from developers or game companies that goes out the window. I don’t go to MM or MN anymore because as the other person said they’ve really changed. Not for the better in my opinion.
December 26, 2007 at 1:47 pm
keep keeping it real pasta.
your money and you don’t even know it.
December 26, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I don’t recall anyone coming on from the gaming companies
to communicate with the community to get their opinions and or ideas to make their games better. I like this because now the gaming companies can really see and get the feel of what the gaming community wants. Either they follow for what is said and take these opinions and put them to work,
that is up to them if they want to achieve what they are aiming for in the future gaming industry. Yes these sites have realy grown and now they are accessing further into other ventures. These sites have really helped the community and the gaming companies.
December 26, 2007 at 3:03 pm
It’s almost scary that media companies such as CNET and Fox own so many gaming sites. It makes the coverage vanilla from everywhere as they are so dependent on the resources from and advertising of the gaming side. That is what is being lost is that independence. There are few sites out there now that have it and that isn’t a good thing.
December 26, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Thats a good picture. I think Will Smith is reading the news about DSM/OS and wondering WTF is going on.
December 26, 2007 at 10:45 pm
So what is the news with OS? I have been out of that loop for sometime. I left OS when credibility became an issue, like staff reviewers writing for sites like Xbox.com. I had ALOT of time invested in OS and was saddened that the site decided to go a certain direction.
What was once a simple, enjoyable gaming community. Something I have moved back to and we have a nice little group of people who just like to play sports games and talk about them.
P.S.
I Am Legend the Movie = Bad
I Am Legend the Book = Good
If you plan to change the ending of a mans work, do so to better it, not Hollywoodize it for the simple minded who need to see things go boom.
December 27, 2007 at 7:21 am
I check here because you keep me posted on games thats coming out soon, other than that I dont feed into the other stuff. Just keep posting games and I dont care what else you do… Like trying to promote NFL Tour and Live 08 that fan stuff (or employee). You are excellent at informing, but you try to hide that you are a EA dude all the way, nothing wrong w/ it… Just do what you do, nothing wrong w/ that… And you still cant tell me that Live 08 is a good game though, that and MM 08 are a disgrace bro.
Shoe
December 27, 2007 at 7:35 am
[quote comment="8271"]I check here because you keep me posted on games thats coming out soon, other than that I dont feed into the other stuff. Just keep posting games and I dont care what else you do… Like trying to promote NFL Tour and Live 08 that fan stuff (or employee). You are excellent at informing, but you try to hide that you are a EA dude all the way, nothing wrong w/ it… Just do what you do, nothing wrong w/ that… And you still cant tell me that Live 08 is a good game though, that and MM 08 are a disgrace bro.
Shoe[/quote]
Well I like to think that I don’t tell anyone that a game is good or not. For that reason you won’t see me doing reviews. I’ve tried posting videos, along with my thoughts yes, but then people can watch the videos and judge for themselves. I will express my opinions on the games, and people can take them or leave them. I don’t speak from the same perspective as every person out there, and I wouldn’t want someone basing a purchase solely on my opinion. I do hope that the info I provide can assist in making a good decision one way or the other though.
I think maybe the only game I’ve ever come out and said more people should consider buying was The BIGS. I thought the general perception around it was that it was just another basic “arcade game” and I really wanted to express that it wasn’t. It had a lot more to it than that.
I appreciate the compliment within there anyway
December 27, 2007 at 1:47 pm
[quote comment="8264"]So what is the news with OS? I have been out of that loop for sometime. I left OS when credibility became an issue, like staff reviewers writing for sites like Xbox.com. I had ALOT of time invested in OS and was saddened that the site decided to go a certain direction.
What was once a simple, enjoyable gaming community. Something I have moved back to and we have a nice little group of people who just like to play sports games and talk about them.
P.S.
I Am Legend the Movie = Bad
I Am Legend the Book = Good
If you plan to change the ending of a mans work, do so to better it, not Hollywoodize it for the simple minded who need to see things go boom.[/quote]
As that (now former) OS staffer (Managing Editor at the time) who also wrote for Xbox.com (and who currently writes for EASports.com, too), I would refute any suggestion regarding any lack of credibility.
Writers (professional ones, at least) write – it’s their job. Most professional freelance writers ply their trade among many media outlets; and most significant professional game writers are published in many different publications (non-gaming magazines, for one example).
Given the reality of that situation, credibility – defined as the ability to remove bias and report accurately – is the only thing that will propel a writer’s career. In other words, when you see a writer in more than one place, with a consistent tone and delivery, it’s indicative of more credibility within the media, not less.
This sort of situation is at the crux of the evolution that Bryan’s talking about in his post. I don’t go by a nickname and online handle, because I’m out there as myself – a professional industry writer. That’s often in sharp contrast to fan sites, which put end-users front and center.
That’s not to say one is inherently superior to one another, but it’s important to understand that the two fill vastly different roles.
December 27, 2007 at 1:50 pm
[quote comment="8272"]
Well I like to think that I don’t tell anyone that a game is good or not.
For that reason you won’t see me doing reviews.
I’ve tried posting videos, along with my thoughts yes, but then people can watch the videos and judge for themselves.
I will express my opinions on the games, and people can take them or leave them.
I do hope that the info I provide can assist in making a good decision one way or the other though.
[/quote]
Pasta,
If you would stop insulting the intelligence of the reader you would probably not have to deal with these innuendos (and accept them as the facts they are). When you throw up thread after thread impression after impression and video after video of March Madness, yet with College Hoops 2K8 you have a couple threads, limited impressions and no videos of you playing it (that I recall).
Now here is the point where I want you to look back on your coverage of EACH game (which you have stated ownership of both). Stating above —– I do hope that the info I provide can assist in making a good decision one way or the other though. —–
* Tell us how, based on your coverage, a person is given any “assistance” in making a “good decision” between the two college games.
Unless the answer is that March Madness 08 can be the only true good decision in your mind, they are not being given what you claim to set out to do.
You are a shill to EA, to say anything other than that is insulting to the rest of the human race, even EA Fanboys. Wow, you applauded The Biggs, which last I check had no competitive game offered by EA Sports.
You are the MajorFreakingNelson of Electronic Arts. Except he gets paid for all his time and effort. I give you the benefit of the doubt, regarding payment, based on the realization that EA loves people like yourself to do all their bidding (see EA Forums and Community Leaders prime example #1).
December 27, 2007 at 2:03 pm
[quote comment="8294"]
As that (now former) OS staffer (Managing Editor at the time) who also wrote for Xbox.com (and who currently writes for EASports.com, too), I would refute any suggestion regarding any lack of credibility.
Writers (professional ones, at least) write – it’s their job. Most professional freelance writers ply their trade among many media outlets; and most significant professional game writers are published in many different publications (non-gaming magazines, for one example).
Given the reality of that situation, credibility – defined as the ability to remove bias and report accurately – is the only thing that will propel a writer’s career. In other words, when you see a writer in more than one place, with a consistent tone and delivery, it’s indicative of more credibility within the media, not less.
This sort of situation is at the crux of the evolution that Bryan’s talking about in his post. I don’t go by a nickname and online handle, because I’m out there as myself – a professional industry writer. That’s often in sharp contrast to fan sites, which put end-users front and center.
That’s not to say one is inherently superior to one another, but it’s important to understand that the two fill vastly different roles.[/quote]
Let me borrow from another site on this very subject…
http://digitalsportspage.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12583&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=5wg&start=25
pk500 wrote:
ExtremeGamer wrote:
I don’t believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.
The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.
Give Shawn credit: He has high-ranking pimps in the gaming world. Smile
Again, Shawn is a good guy, and good for him for landing high-visibility writing gigs.
But I can’t take the objectivity of 5WG very seriously when Shawn is/has been on the dole of two of the three biggest giants in the gaming industry. If he starts writing for Sony, the trifecta will be complete.
Take care,
PK
Lots of hands and lots of pies. You can’t honestly sit there and claim 100% objectivity when you are being paid by companies that are impacted by the review. Sorry no amount of fancy wording will make me think otherwise.
Like PK said, you are not a bad guy and I really did enjoying working with you before you starting taking these jobs. At that point you should have simply resigned yourself from OS. Just like my boy Steve should have never reviewed a single NBA Inside Drive game since he was so close with Beluba.
That is just me, others peoples two cents will vary.
December 27, 2007 at 2:44 pm
[quote comment="8296"][quote comment="8294"]
As that (now former) OS staffer (Managing Editor at the time) who also wrote for Xbox.com (and who currently writes for EASports.com, too), I would refute any suggestion regarding any lack of credibility.
Writers (professional ones, at least) write – it’s their job. Most professional freelance writers ply their trade among many media outlets; and most significant professional game writers are published in many different publications (non-gaming magazines, for one example).
Given the reality of that situation, credibility – defined as the ability to remove bias and report accurately – is the only thing that will propel a writer’s career. In other words, when you see a writer in more than one place, with a consistent tone and delivery, it’s indicative of more credibility within the media, not less.
This sort of situation is at the crux of the evolution that Bryan’s talking about in his post. I don’t go by a nickname and online handle, because I’m out there as myself – a professional industry writer. That’s often in sharp contrast to fan sites, which put end-users front and center.
That’s not to say one is inherently superior to one another, but it’s important to understand that the two fill vastly different roles.[/quote]
Let me borrow from another site on this very subject…
http://digitalsportspage.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12583&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=5wg&start=25
pk500 wrote:
ExtremeGamer wrote:
I don’t believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.
The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.
Give Shawn credit: He has high-ranking pimps in the gaming world. Smile
Again, Shawn is a good guy, and good for him for landing high-visibility writing gigs.
But I can’t take the objectivity of 5WG very seriously when Shawn is/has been on the dole of two of the three biggest giants in the gaming industry. If he starts writing for Sony, the trifecta will be complete.
Take care,
PK
Lots of hands and lots of pies. You can’t honestly sit there and claim 100% objectivity when you are being paid by companies that are impacted by the review. Sorry no amount of fancy wording will make me think otherwise.
Like PK said, you are not a bad guy and I really did enjoying working with you before you starting taking these jobs. At that point you should have simply resigned yourself from OS. Just like my boy Steve should have never reviewed a single NBA Inside Drive game since he was so close with Beluba.
That is just me, others peoples two cents will vary.[/quote]
Well, first – I’m not sure who you are (I don’t recognize your “handle”, but I’ll take you at your word that we’ve worked together.
Second – PK doesn’t have the slightest understanding of my career as he’s never been privy to it, so while I think he’s a conscientious and likable fellow, he’s completely unqualified to comment in this regard.
Third, there’s no “fancy wording” necessary – I don’t get paid by any of those companies, and never have been. I’m simply trying to increase my traffic and visibility (just like Mr. Kelly) by writing as much as possible for folks who ask for my work. I don’t even get review copies of Microsoft titles, even though I write for Xbox.com.
I completely agree with your assertion: there’s no way to claim complete objectivity when you’re on someone’s payroll; that’s why I’m not on one. Mr. Kelly’s accusation of my being “on the dole” is pure speculation – and it’s completely inaccurate.
I’m a sports editor by trade – I write for a living (though I cover video games at my own expense; it’s a loss every year), so I’m wholly aware of the ethical implications in the world of news, and I steer clear of as many gray places as possible.
Like many writers, my only defense is the quality of my work – not the outlets from which they’re published, but the very work itself.
I stand behind it, and I’m confident that when it’s read without any preconceived notions, that it will be found to be impartial and as thoughtful as I can possibly make it.
***
I certainly did not mean to take this comment thread off course; rather, I meant to clear up some misconceptions. To Bryan “Pastapadre” and other commenters who were taken off course by the ensuing discussion, I apologize.
Further comments regarding my work should be made at 5WG, where they would be more appropriate – I’ll be happy to address them there.
December 27, 2007 at 2:56 pm
BD IS ME
I will let you wrap your head around that riddle.
December 27, 2007 at 3:14 pm
[quote comment="8295"][quote comment="8272"]
Well I like to think that I don’t tell anyone that a game is good or not.
For that reason you won’t see me doing reviews.
I’ve tried posting videos, along with my thoughts yes, but then people can watch the videos and judge for themselves.
I will express my opinions on the games, and people can take them or leave them.
I do hope that the info I provide can assist in making a good decision one way or the other though.
[/quote]
Pasta,
If you would stop insulting the intelligence of the reader you would probably not have to deal with these innuendos (and accept them as the facts they are). When you throw up thread after thread impression after impression and video after video of March Madness, yet with College Hoops 2K8 you have a couple threads, limited impressions and no videos of you playing it (that I recall).
Now here is the point where I want you to look back on your coverage of EACH game (which you have stated ownership of both). Stating above —– I do hope that the info I provide can assist in making a good decision one way or the other though. —–
* Tell us how, based on your coverage, a person is given any “assistance” in making a “good decision” between the two college games.
Unless the answer is that March Madness 08 can be the only true good decision in your mind, they are not being given what you claim to set out to do.
You are a shill to EA, to say anything other than that is insulting to the rest of the human race, even EA Fanboys. Wow, you applauded The Biggs, which last I check had no competitive game offered by EA Sports.
You are the MajorFreakingNelson of Electronic Arts. Except he gets paid for all his time and effort. I give you the benefit of the doubt, regarding payment, based on the realization that EA loves people like yourself to do all their bidding (see EA Forums and Community Leaders prime example #1).[/quote]
I would’ve posted videos of 2K but my copy of the game didn’t arrive until after release. Had they sent a pre-release copy I surely would’ve done the same with that game. It’s not like I have anything better to do lol. But I only do videos for pre-release coverage. Post-release it generally shifts back to news related to the games.
When I say giving assistance, I mean more so in the news sense. Trying to clarify things about the games by answering questions, or letting people decide for themselves with pre-release videos or my taking my opinions on a game if they so desire. Not buy this game because I like it.
I didn’t go in and compare/contrast the two college games. CH 2K8 was already out for several weeks before MM 08 came around. Most people weren’t looking to decide between the two of them and that wasn’t the point of the coverage. However there was curiosity around how the MM game compared to its demo, especially in the game speed area, and that was the focus of the videos.
The ironic thing is I would probably say that I prefer CH overall. But your perspective on things isn’t going to allow for that to mean anything.
I’m really looking forward to MLB 2K8. Baseball is probably my favorite to play. I’m hoping that 2K gives more access to it and I can get an early copy. But I have no idea if that’ll happen. The way community is treated between 2K and EA is significantly different with EA offering much more in the way of access and resources. Obviously because of that it is reflected in what I can offer with the site.
Its unfortunate you choose to take such a harsh stance but you’re welcome to your opinion which I don’t expect to change and still appreciate that you visit the site. Hopefully this post clarifies things a little bit for you. This isn’t a media site and I don’t guarantee equal coverage just for the sake of it. If you can’t accept that then theres no much else I can say. Even media sites cover some games more than the others, which is a reflection of how much those companies interact with them and the opportunities they’re given.
December 27, 2007 at 7:00 pm
[quote comment="8299"]
Its unfortunate you choose to take such a harsh stance but you’re welcome to your opinion which I don’t expect to change and still appreciate that you visit the site. Hopefully this post clarifies things a little bit for you. This isn’t a media site and I don’t guarantee equal coverage just for the sake of it. If you can’t accept that then theres no much else I can say. Even media sites cover some games more than the others, which is a reflection of how much those companies interact with them and the opportunities they’re given.[/quote]
While we will agree to disagree I do enjoy visiting pastapadre.com and enjoy much of what you do. You take the jabs thrown at you and reply in a classy demeanor, a lost art on the internet. For that and the time you take with updating the site I applaud you.
Run the site how you want. Just stay away from the “fair and balanced” tag. It does not work for Fox and will not work here.
December 27, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Just wanted to come in here and say that Pastapadre is not employed by EA or any other company. He has given his free time to promote community (which is all he’s really after).
Shawn enjoys writing. That’s the bottom-line with him.
As an EA SPORTS Community Manager, I’d be stupid not to reach out and talk to these guys regularly. Do I decide what they write about? Absolutely not.
I don’t blame you for thinking the way some of you do, you don’t know any better. Perhaps it is the job of all of us to inform you guys on what really goes on.
I consider Pasta and Shawn friends of mine whether I’m with EA or not.
You guys forget that Pasta didn’t like March Madness and enjoyed College Hoops. He’s not an EA guy, but we do give him access to what we do so he can be more informed.
I’d love to bring ALL of you into that same loop, but that is simply not possible. Pasta is a representative for all of you and your opinions. when he shows up at a Community Event, I ask him for YOUR opinions and questions, not just his. He represents the thousands who come to his site, and I look for that. I look for what shoeprint thinks, or BDISME thinks, not what pastapadre the individual thinks and his thoughts alone. While they are valued, he understands that his ability to understand all of you and communicate that back to me is far more important.
Same goes for Shawn. He is a very opinionated person, and will flat out tell you what’s wrong in your game.
Just wanted to throw my two cents in a bit.
Happy Holidays everyone!
December 27, 2007 at 9:37 pm
[quote comment="8331"]Just wanted to come in here and say that Pastapadre is not employed by EA or any other company. [/quote]
Why do you spread lies about the magnificent human specimen that is Pastapadre? You dare to suggest that Pastapadre is not employed? That he is a common beggar, crawling through the streets of suburban Seattle asking for money to buy cheap wins and Ritz crackers?
I throw pain at you that you may feel it. Flee from here that you may be spared.
December 27, 2007 at 9:43 pm
You have upset me to the point where I have incorrectly spelled the word wines. Shame on your face!
December 27, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Less time rambling on message boards… More time on getting your “Next Gen” sports games, that retail for $59.99, filled with all the features we had on the last gen titles.
I don’t want in YOUR LOOP. Been there and done that. Our opinions mean less than squat to EA because all of the work involved to make such a game would never jive with the all mighty bottom line and the stockholders. That is the group that EA cares about.
If only Yahtzee was American and could review some of your games.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/2304-Zero-Punctuation-Halo-3
December 28, 2007 at 11:51 am
[quote comment="8334"]Less time rambling on message boards… More time on getting your “Next Gen” sports games, that retail for $59.99, filled with all the features we had on the last gen titles.
I don’t want in YOUR LOOP. Been there and done that. Our opinions mean less than squat to EA because all of the work involved to make such a game would never jive with the all mighty bottom line and the stockholders. That is the group that EA cares about.
If only Yahtzee was American and could review some of your games.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/2304-Zero-Punctuation-Halo-3/quote
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December 28, 2007 at 1:47 pm
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/i-has-minions.jpg
There you go… Felt bad for you posting so much unfunny all by yourself.
December 28, 2007 at 2:12 pm
It is with much glee that Zuka awards you a fine piece of clip art. This clip art glove which I give to you today features a curious inner pocket that in some ways resembles a most delicious waffle.
But rather than consume a hearty meal, Zuka implores you to wield this leather hand glove in the hope that you will be able to continue your passion for catching feelings. Many feelings fly around the .com Internet website of Pastapadre, and to this point you have proceeded courageously in catching them with your bare hands.
From this day forward you will have protection, that you may catch as many feelings as possible without any concern for your own personal health and safety.
Click the link below and claim your prize. Let us then celebrate together on this great day!
http://www.dailyclipart.net/wp-content/uploads/medium/clipart0218.jpg
December 28, 2007 at 2:34 pm
So if I keep posting silly meme images, you will waste 30 minutes writing a bunch of dribble?
http://static.dropline.net/cats/images/halp-i-not-cheezburger.jpg
http://static.dropline.net/cats/images/Muffin-cat.jpg
What the heck, there are two, get busy.
December 28, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Zuka is most pleased to see that you are using your new glove. Joy to you!
December 30, 2007 at 7:25 am
Wow…what the hilarious part of all of this is Brent Doughty. Some of us would have love to seen your face when Shawn didn’t know it was you. That’s right, BD, no one knew it was you. What’s the matter, Brent, losing that touch?
For those of you that don’t know, BDISME is well known for stirring up trouble for no reason other than to get off on it. Pay him no mind.
Pasta and Shawn both do great jobs in their respective writing positions. Pasta routinely breaks news on roster releases and patches for EA, Shawn normally has a very intelligent opinion, agree with it or not, on the changing world of video games.
Great job, both of you. Don’t let attention whores trying to pump himself up get in the way of that.
December 30, 2007 at 6:09 pm
[quote comment="8473"]Wow…what the hilarious part of all of this is Brent Doughty. Some of us would have love to seen your face when Shawn didn’t know it was you. That’s right, BD, no one knew it was you. What’s the matter, Brent, losing that touch?
For those of you that don’t know, BDISME is well known for stirring up trouble for no reason other than to get off on it. Pay him no mind.
Pasta and Shawn both do great jobs in their respective writing positions. Pasta routinely breaks news on roster releases and patches for EA, Shawn normally has a very intelligent opinion, agree with it or not, on the changing world of video games.
Great job, both of you. Don’t let attention whores trying to pump himself up get in the way of that.[/quote]
I could honestly give two farts about Shawn or OS. Although he sure seemed to step in pretty quick here to defend his honor. He knew who I was, no matter what your limited imagination leads you to think otherwise.
Might want to go to the doctor and get yourself checked out. Those Viagra commercials claim to do so if your erection lasts more than four hours. Your hard-on for me has lasted what, three or more years? Although it explains the lack of insight in your posts due to the blood rushing away from the brain.
December 31, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Wow guess I stirred up the debate at DSP on this subject. 3 pages dedicated to my boy Shawn who was busy trying to cover his keester.
Is that Millenium posting over at DSP on the subject? Aren’t you just Shawn’s little cuckold.
January 1, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Well the games have not been of i higher quality, so our words are going unheard, these new sports games have been horrible then need to improve on them.