Madden 09 gang tackling
by 
Madden 09 producer Ian Cummings has a new in-depth discussion going on over at Operation Sports which you can check out here. He started it off by displaying some highlights and lowlights of the game’s tackling engine.
Among what is mentioned is how the community has directly led to the improvement of gang tackling for this year, that there will continue to be no more than two players making up a gang tackle, and why motion capture has been shown to be more beneficial than the NaturalMotion tackles in the game. A follow-up video may be posted on Wednesday displaying what has been adjusted since this particular video was produced.
While it is great to have this level of dialogue and input it certainly would be natural to wonder about these developments. Given the confidence and apparent level of improvement that is said to have been made in such a short period of time (less than a day) why has the gang tackling been so slow to progress?
Overall the “good” tackles looked really natural while the “poor” ones were all too familiar for anyone who has played the game the last two years. Continue on to watch the video in high quality.
May 27, 2008 at 11:18 pm
if you read the article on OS, they found a couple things wrong in the video like a player slowing down before tackling the guy. I’m glad their going to fix that.
May 27, 2008 at 11:28 pm
the highlights look awesome and the lowlights really make you appreciate the highlights of the video and i am anticipating the clean up video and im also READY FOR YOUR REPORTS TO COME LATER ON this week concerning Head Coach, Madden and Ncaa…..forget the facebreaker stuff no offense but its gonna sell like APF 2k8….
May 28, 2008 at 3:39 am
wait…EA cares? what the hell happened? is the world ending?
seriously though, this is the best news since seedless oranges.
May 28, 2008 at 3:56 am
Pasta, as to why it’s taken so long for Gang Tackling to be addressed, isn’t this year the first using a new system for gang tackling?
I think what he’s saying is that gang tackling was already going to be better than previous years thanks to motion capture, but that thanks to the guy at OS they were able to address some issues they might have missed before the game shipped.
He also talks about it at the official forums.
http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=367891&tstart=0
May 28, 2008 at 4:57 am
Madden >>>>>>>>>>>>NCAA
Over and over again the madden guys are doing something to impress me.Fr him to respond to forums and admit for the moment that 2k gang tackling system was better then theres thats big.Cuz is EA is know to make statments like our systems for this is the best and dont back it up.There finally showing Effort all around boards gampeplay,graphics,audio,and presentation
May 28, 2008 at 5:03 am
I’m sick of these ultra strong CBs in Madden that can flatten most RBs. Then CBs that do flatten guys don’t have the ratings like D.REVIS or the Landry Brothers. They need to get rid of it. Why do I have to truck stick a 180lbs db? I’m starting to hate this year to year increment of improvments, In like ‘98 my girlfriend said EA just gives you guys a little bit each year to hold you off till next year, She was right. And that was ten years ago. Still looks like pinball-bowling pin tackling to me. Whatever, I have mine’s pre oredered. I cant cry, but can’t lie, Make mines Madden
May 28, 2008 at 5:20 am
good stuff.
Let’s hope they fixed an even more simple thing such as defenders credited with 2 INTs for every 1 INT they make in simmed games in Franchise mode.
Any how about the option to adjust the QTR Length of simmed games for once?
May 28, 2008 at 6:08 am
As long as they fixed the 10 fumbles and 30 interceptions per game- and added animations/fluidity to the total game I am happy.
I am liking the presentation so far, and am hoping we get super bowl patches, and non generic superbowl endzones.
May 28, 2008 at 6:13 am
It looks ok but 2K’s gang tackling is better.
May 28, 2008 at 6:25 am
[quote comment="22424"]As long as they fixed the 10 fumbles and 30 interceptions per game- and added animations/fluidity to the total game I am happy.
I am liking the presentation so far, and am hoping we get super bowl patches, and non generic superbowl endzones.[/quote]
They should do that and I don’t get why they wouldn’t considering they made the identical NBA ASG court available for download.
May 28, 2008 at 6:31 am
Does anyone know the name of the song that plays from 1:56 to the end? I know it’s from NFL films, but I can never find the name of the song.
May 28, 2008 at 6:51 am
Looks pretty sweet, can’t wait for your reports from community day Pasta.
May 28, 2008 at 6:58 am
[quote comment="22428"]Does anyone know the name of the song that plays from 1:56 to the end? I know it’s from NFL films, but I can never find the name of the song.[/quote]
The song is called “Round Up”
May 28, 2008 at 7:14 am
[quote comment="22430"][quote comment="22428"]Does anyone know the name of the song that plays from 1:56 to the end? I know it’s from NFL films, but I can never find the name of the song.[/quote]
The song is called “Round Up”[/quote]
Thanks! It’s been one of those things that’s been in the back of my mind for a long time.
May 28, 2008 at 7:53 am
I like how he spends half his time writing about the 2k tackling and comparing the two….oh whats that ea? competition doesn’t drive you to make a better product? …sure.
I’m psyched for these two football games though.
May 28, 2008 at 9:15 am
[quote comment="22438"]I like how he spends half his time writing about the 2k tackling and comparing the two….oh whats that ea? competition doesn’t drive you to make a better product? …sure.
I’m psyched for these two football games though.[/quote]
I don’t recall EA ever claiming that the NFL 2K series didn’t drive competition.
I’d think the 2K fan base out there would be happy that he’s openly comparing the games and trying to add things from that series to Madden.
May 28, 2008 at 9:38 am
I like Ian Cummings, much better than the previous clowns. However can u guys imagine if we still had the NFL 2K series??? I was always a Madden guy but having that series here would NO doubt leave us with at least one fantastic NFL game. The lack of competition hurts only us.
May 28, 2008 at 9:55 am
even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one
May 28, 2008 at 10:32 am
[quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Guess you haven’t played the MLB 2K series or compared the NHL games.
Every company has their ups and downs.
May 28, 2008 at 10:35 am
Pasta I know this is off topic & I know that you’ve address this already but can you please make another suggestion to EA about the excessive camera flashes during a game? It would be cool if we only saw the excessive camera flashes during the Superbowl. That would add to making the Superbowl feel unique & important. We should only see a few camera flashes during a regular game. Sorry, like I said I know it’s off topic but I wanted to get that in before it’s too late in development to adjust it.
May 28, 2008 at 10:52 am
[quote comment="22453"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Guess you haven’t played the MLB 2K series or compared the NHL games.
Every company has their ups and downs.[/quote]
mlb 2K is a little disappointing but the NHL games are both solid
May 28, 2008 at 11:08 am
[quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Dude to say that Madden is pathetic just proves that you’re an Ea hater. Does the game need to be improved? Yes. Is it a pathetic game? Not at all. We all can agree that Madden is still missing basic parts of an NFL football game (Refs, chaingangs, etc..) & yes 2K5 still has the best presentation I’ve ever seen in a game, but at least give credit where credit is do. This game looks leaps and bounds beyond last years. You have to admit that EA responding to us consumers & making last minute adjustments based on that is quite impressive & unlike EA to do that. So please try to be a little more constructive when posting comments. I think we can all agree that the 12 year old EA bashing is getting a little old.
May 28, 2008 at 11:10 am
It’s a little alarming that EA has to rely on the community to this extent. Yes, they fixed an issue relatively quick, but as Ian said, Madden 09 would have shipped with the problem if someone in the community didn’t point it out. Yikes. It was barely caught.
“I am here to admit defeat to 2k’s gang tackling system.”
- Ian Cummings
What a refreshing thing to read, albeit slightly depressing.
Ian’s statement says a lot about EA in general, but I want to say this: I don’t know Ian, but I appreciate his honesty. EA still hasn’t caught up to 2K despite never taking a year off. It’s a straightforward evaluation, and it shows he’s doing his best to contribute. Why not admit areas where they need to improve?
Madden has been playing catch up for years, and we’re still waiting. Thanks for the communication, Ian. I mean that. We all want Madden to succeed.
May 28, 2008 at 11:33 am
[quote comment="22456"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Dude to say that Madden is pathetic just proves that you’re an Ea hater. Does the game need to be improved? Yes. Is it a pathetic game? Not at all. We all can agree that Madden is still missing basic parts of an NFL football game (Refs, chaingangs, etc..) & yes 2K5 still has the best presentation I’ve ever seen in a game, but at least give credit where credit is do. This game looks leaps and bounds beyond last years. You have to admit that EA responding to us consumers & making last minute adjustments based on that is quite impressive & unlike EA to do that. So please try to be a little more constructive when posting comments. I think we can all agree that the 12 year old EA bashing is getting a little old.[/quote]
Presentation, are u kidding dude, 2k had pre-game post-game, and halftime report. how doubt they need to add things like that. Little EA fanboy madden has sucked, u get it now.
May 28, 2008 at 11:42 am
[quote comment="22453"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Guess you haven’t played the MLB 2K series or compared the NHL games.
Every company has their ups and downs.[/quote]
Okay lets say this, Visual Concepts makes the best sports games. Kush is a failure just like EA (EA hockey good). ESPN NFL 2k5 had better gang tackling, so imagine if it was evolved in 2k6, 2k7 and 2k8…and finally you would have the deepest football game on the planet EVER…EVER.
May 28, 2008 at 11:52 am
I want to see improved O-line and D-line play. It is so unrealistic.
May 28, 2008 at 11:52 am
[quote comment="22462"]ESPN NFL 2k5 had better gang tackling, so imagine if it was evolved in 2k6, 2k7 and 2k8…and finally you would have the deepest football game on the planet EVER…EVER.[/quote]
You’re right, but I try not to think about it. 2K was constantly moving forward. EA moves backwards despite technology getting better. EA removes refs so they don’t have to deal with them. That’s lazy and inexcusable.
I’m still rooting for Madden 09. Big time. Ian is listening to the community. There are good signs. It may take another year or two, but we’re getting there.
We all want an AMAZING game, not just a decent one.
May 28, 2008 at 12:10 pm
While 2K5 did have good presentation, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t skip the little clips after the tenth time I played a game. Going back and playing 2K5 now, it’s kind of embarassing that I ever felt it was cool. The half-time show itself is actually pretty entertaining though. The interviews with the players are so terrible that I can’t help but laugh. Still better then anything EA has offered though in terms of presentation although I don’t think I could play another game of 2K5 considering how bad it plays by todays standards. I really wish APF would have turned out better though, it got really old once i learned how easy it was to exploit a defense even on the hardest difficulty.
To be on topic though, it is really sad that EA couldn’t do gangtackling like 2K as that was one of the few features from APF and 2K5 that has not been matched by EA.
May 28, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Anybody remember back in the genesis days when madden had the feature when it would show you last minute finishes of other games that occured that week.
That is exactly what madden needs to get back too and what made 2k5’s presentation so favorable. Madden needs to incorporate Chris Bermans fastest 3 minutes in the NFL.
The feature would highlight all the great plays of the day from around the league and would definitely give a sense of meaning to the cpu simulated games in your season or franchise.
Also at halftime they should show highlights from games around the league showing great plays. This IMHO is the kind of presentation that madden fans are looking for and with the power of next gen, how hard could this actually be.
May 28, 2008 at 12:39 pm
The back-and-forth between Ian and the community at Operation Sports is fascinating. Detailed videos are being included in threads to support positions.
There is SO much passion for sports games. Everyone at EA needs to understand this. It looks like Ian does. I hope he continues to be open so we can make Madden 09 the best game possible with the time we have left.
We need true community interaction, not hype.
May 28, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Whatever happened to Backbreaker??? I thought it would have come out by now to avoid directly competing with Madden?
May 28, 2008 at 1:50 pm
[quote comment="22470"]Anybody remember back in the genesis days when madden had the feature when it would show you last minute finishes of other games that occured that week.
That is exactly what madden needs to get back too and what made 2k5’s presentation so favorable. Madden needs to incorporate Chris Bermans fastest 3 minutes in the NFL.
The feature would highlight all the great plays of the day from around the league and would definitely give a sense of meaning to the cpu simulated games in your season or franchise.
Also at halftime they should show highlights from games around the league showing great plays. This IMHO is the kind of presentation that madden fans are looking for and with the power of next gen, how hard could this actually be.[/quote]
EXACTLY!!!!
How come NHL on genesis had better presentation than anything we have now? Heck, even Tecmo bowl ahd great presentation- speaking of Tecmo bowl- how come the gang tackling in that was spot on?
May 28, 2008 at 2:46 pm
[quote comment="22461"][quote comment="22456"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Dude to say that Madden is pathetic just proves that you’re an Ea hater. Does the game need to be improved? Yes. Is it a pathetic game? Not at all. We all can agree that Madden is still missing basic parts of an NFL football game (Refs, chaingangs, etc..) & yes 2K5 still has the best presentation I’ve ever seen in a game, but at least give credit where credit is do. This game looks leaps and bounds beyond last years. You have to admit that EA responding to us consumers & making last minute adjustments based on that is quite impressive & unlike EA to do that. So please try to be a little more constructive when posting comments. I think we can all agree that the 12 year old EA bashing is getting a little old.[/quote]
Presentation, are u kidding dude, 2k had pre-game post-game, and halftime report. how doubt they need to add things like that. Little EA fanboy madden has sucked, u get it now.[/quote]
What are you like 5? If you could understand English that’s what I said. ” 2K5 had the best presentation I’ve seen in a game”. I’m not here to argue back & forth with little kids, I’m just saying that we’ve already heard the same complaints over & over. Maybe if you tried being a little more constructive then maybe your complaints would be taken into consideration. U get it now?
May 28, 2008 at 2:52 pm
How come it feels like every year Madden is addressing gang tackling? Let’s get it down guys and move to something else…
May 28, 2008 at 3:02 pm
This whole ordeal has really opened my eyes. I always thought that the people working on EA’s “next-gen” football titles simply lacked the talent to produce a football simulation. But that conversation going on at OS is showing me that they have guys who can fix the issues, they just don’t have enough football minds who are capable of spotting the issues.
Ian admitted that the game would have shipped with defenders giving up on the play once contact was initiated had someone from that thread not pointed it out. How come no one at EA could see that issue? What else are they not seeing that could end up being shipped?
It’s like the guys who work on Madden are gifted developers, but have the collective football IQ of a misquito.
May 28, 2008 at 3:03 pm
[quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
ok first of all theres no nedd to absolutely s#@t on ea you can complain about some issues you have with the game but you dont need to absolutely be negative and if 2k is so much better why doesnt all pro football have sales like madden does EVERY year listen i complain about isssues i have but madden overall is a really good game if you are gonna be tottaly negative do not comment
May 28, 2008 at 3:07 pm
There’s even a dude in that thread pointing out numerous “suction” blocks that Ian seemed totally oblivious to until they were pointed out. Plus an entire thread dedicated to jersey errors (can the EA team not look at a photo themselves? They need US to point this stuff out?)
I’m damn glad that Ian is there doing what he’s doing, but Christ, they might as well call it “Madden’09: The game the fans built”.
May 28, 2008 at 4:05 pm
[quote comment="22482"]…they have guys who can fix the issues, they just don’t have enough football minds who are capable of spotting the issues.[/quote]
You may very well be right.
May 28, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Ian has posted his follow-up on the gang tackling issue.
May 28, 2008 at 5:14 pm
[quote comment="22482"]
Ian admitted that the game would have shipped with defenders giving up on the play once contact was initiated had someone from that thread not pointed it out. How come no one at EA could see that issue? What else are they not seeing that could end up being shipped?
It’s like the guys who work on Madden are gifted developers, but have the collective football IQ of a misquito.[/quote]
Well said. It’s clear that they lack football IQ. Here are a few glaring issues I still see:
1. Players run to the line of scrimmage before every play rather than walking. This might be because they don’t have a solid “walking” animation, to which I would say that they need to get their asses in gear. That’s unacceptable.
2. Camera zooms all stupid during post plays and moves up and down all silly when a single player moves inside the frame — that’s some shoddy camera work
3. Some of the players proportions are off; some guys look like little kids and are too slim. We need a damn editor to fix player sizes.
But I’ll bet you even though it’s been pointed out like 1,000 times, it will still ship with these issues. Not only do they lack football IQ, but they lack taste and can’t seem to nail down consistency in the overall visual picture. They still have a lot to learn, and when your fans are pointing these GLARING things out and you don’t see them yourself, you’ve got a problem.
May 28, 2008 at 5:59 pm
The tackles were all the same from 08. And does he really need to play each of them for so long? Video failed to show me anything.
May 28, 2008 at 6:25 pm
[quote comment="22483"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
ok first of all theres no nedd to absolutely s#@t on ea you can complain about some issues you have with the game but you dont need to absolutely be negative and if 2k is so much better why doesnt all pro football have sales like madden does EVERY year listen i complain about isssues i have but madden overall is a really good game if you are gonna be tottaly negative do not comment[/quote]
R u serious because EA has the NFL license. damn ur an idiot
May 28, 2008 at 6:41 pm
[quote comment="22494"][quote comment="22483"][quote comment="22450"]even if 2k made a football game, madden would still be pathetic. please don’t give these guys any credit by saying the would match 2k, they don’t deserve it. look at nba live it’s horrible not worth playing. nba 2K8 is soooooo much better and ea still hasn’t made a anything close to nba 2k8 so why would i expect these clowns to get football right.
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
ok first of all theres no nedd to absolutely s#@t on ea you can complain about some issues you have with the game but you dont need to absolutely be negative and if 2k is so much better why doesnt all pro football have sales like madden does EVERY year listen i complain about isssues i have but madden overall is a really good game if you are gonna be tottaly negative do not comment[/quote]
R u serious because EA has the NFL license. damn ur an idiot[/quote]
and umm i belive all pro is full of legends that played in the nfl i know a lot of people who would rather play as legends than current players and thats not even my point the kid said ea=crap so what just because they dont have the nfl license means it will sell less ok yeah thats a lil part but not all if 2k made a nfl game it would put some competiton against madden but at the end of the day madden easily sells more copies
May 28, 2008 at 7:32 pm
[quote comment="22495"]
just because they dont have the nfl license means it will sell less ok yeah thats a lil part but not all[/quote]
Umm, no. That’s a major part. But even if 2K had an NFL license and made a perfect football game, EA would still outsell them for a few versions, at the very least. Why? The same reason some people spend $60 on a plain white t-shirt because of the brand printed on the tag, while others will be the exact same shirt for $10 under a different brand. Brand recognition. EA has been around a long time and is a strong brand. NBA 2K is miles ahead of NBA Live at this point, yet Live still outsells it all thanks to brand recognition.
May 28, 2008 at 8:12 pm
EA Sports = crapy sports games, seriously go play one[/quote]
Guess you haven’t played the MLB 2K series or compared the NHL games.
Every company has their ups and downs.[/quote]
mlb 2K is a little disappointing but the NHL games are both solid[/quote]
uh no MLB 2k was a huge disappointment. EA is by far the superior game of the NHL games. Have you played 2k online? it is horrid. where as EA nhl 08 is fluid, tight and amazingly awesome. It’s a must buy if you own a 360. never played it for the ps3….
May 28, 2008 at 8:23 pm
[quote comment="22498"][quote comment="22495"]
just because they dont have the nfl license means it will sell less ok yeah thats a lil part but not all[/quote]
Umm, no. That’s a major part. But even if 2K had an NFL license and made a perfect football game, EA would still outsell them for a few versions, at the very least. Why? The same reason some people spend $60 on a plain white t-shirt because of the brand printed on the tag, while others will be the exact same shirt for $10 under a different brand. Brand recognition. EA has been around a long time and is a strong brand. NBA 2K is miles ahead of NBA Live at this point, yet Live still outsells it all thanks to brand recognition.[/quote]
that is what i sad ea will still outsell
May 28, 2008 at 9:08 pm
hmmmmm… where’s that new vid he promised us? don’t wanna say that it appears to be typical EA…
but, just sayin’
May 28, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I don’t know why any of you waste your time talking about sales. What I want is a good game. A good NFL/NCAA game. Yes I prefer 2K, but I have faced the fact that they aren’t going to survive without the license. At least not enough to make a new version of APF every year. I really hope maybe by next years version, will finally be the best in the series, as of now, Madden 07 on the xbox or PS2 is still better than any of the next gen versions.
May 29, 2008 at 4:47 am
[quote comment="22515"]hmmmmm… where’s that new vid he promised us? don’t wanna say that it appears to be typical EA…
but, just sayin’[/quote]
Did you look for it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ41mC15rvg
May 29, 2008 at 4:54 am
And this is the thread over at Operation Sports where he’s talking about it.
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/250613-followup-gang-tackling-response.html
This guy has done more in the last 3 weeks than any other EA rep has to my knowledge and people are still throwing him under the EA bus. Amazing.