Madden 10 Blog on Ratings Philosophy

by pastapadre
Posted February 9th, 2009 at 3:47 pm

madden090209

The new EA Sports community blog has provided another interesting entry this time from Madden 10 Designer Donny Moore. In it he goes over some significant changes to how player ratings are going to be structured next year. You can read the entire blog posting here.

Every position and every rating has been re-scaled to expand the range of numbers we are dealing with. The Overall Rating for your average NFL player has dropped. Your Joe Average linebacker who was 80 OVR is now dropped down to 70. The players who were before right on the cusp of 90 in a rating category are now down around 85-88…Meaning, there are fewer superstar players out there.

This is pretty big news and a very welcome change from the stagnant way ratings shaped game performance before. We saw the beginning of this in the final roster update of the year. Something that has plagued Madden for years has been the lack of separation between great, good, average, and poor players. You could get by with low rated players in general, especially if they had high speed ratings. It now appears other categories will carry more importance which should produce results more true to life.

I’m not sure if this is a way to make the importance of “team” come across more rather than a collection of individuals though. That is really the next step, to come up with a way that the Cowboys aren’t the best team in Madden just because they have big name talent at skill positions.

Tags:

t. daley

Pasta: I also think that Madden should steal a page from the MLB series with weekly player updates in addition to stealing a page from the live series with the live 360 updates. Each week you take a players individual performance and you adjust the applicable trait characteristic as demonstrated by that players performance. For example If a LB makes numerous 1 on 1 tackles in the open field then you can increase his TAK stat, or if a WR makes some great catches you can increase his CTH rating. Same goes for missing tackles and dropping passes. I would use the Live 360 format as a way to demonstrate team tendancies and would use this for offline play against the CPU. So if a team lik e the EAGLES pass 60% of the time in real life then you can expect the same in the game.

blondeviking64

I think this is a bad idea. Mainly becuase a players ability in football cant be judged correctly based soley on stats. Sure, maybe Calvin Johnson had a bunch of drops last year but he was also gettign the ball thrown at him into double coverage and pretty much just all the time. They had no other offense. His catch rating shouldnt go down because he had some dropped balls. Your view is too simplistic for a game that is extremely complex. Baseball players hit the ball or dont. It is much easier to quantify than football.

t. daley

Well i don't think a football player gets penalized for a ball not caught while properly defended. Dropped passes are always referred to by a simple uncontested drop. Secondly there is no way to accurately rate any of these players in the game. How do you quantify an OL. How do you quantify speed ( they dont make these guys run the 40)?
There has to be a format for rating players. In the past the devs when interviewed said that most players rating were based on a public perception of what they thought a player to be. Well that is BS way of doing things and that is why gamers and Actual NFL players complain about the stats. If you don't use performance as a cornerstone of the rating system then the rating system is garbage. Prime example is LT on the chargers. Everyone know LT had a somewhat less than stellar year down the stretch due in part to injury but poor none the less, yet his Madden stats were not affected to display ths. That is the problem with the stats system in the game. If your going to attemp to adjust players stats then you need to have a system from which to do it otherwise don't bother, it just pisses people off.

Fox

"Well i don't think a football player gets penalized for a ball not caught while properly defended."
Actually, if a guy catches the ball and had it knocked out of his hands, it would count as a drop. Just saying. That's why you can judge baseball solely on stats, but not football. For instance, shutdown corners don't usually have as many interceptions because people aren't dumb enough to throw their way a lot. Case in point-Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders.

Anyway, the rest of this particular post was pretty agreeable…

t. daley

Pasta: I also think that Madden should steal a page from the MLB series with weekly player updates in addition to stealing a page from the live series with the live 360 updates. Each week you take a players individual performance and you adjust the applicable trait characteristic as demonstrated by that players performance. For example If a LB makes numerous 1 on 1 tackles in the open field then you can increase his TAK stat, or if a WR makes some great catches you can increase his CTH rating. Same goes for missing tackles and dropping passes. I would use the Live 360 format as a way to demonstrate team tendancies and would use this for offline play against the CPU. So if a team lik e the EAGLES pass 60% of the time in real life then you can expect the same in the game.

blondeviking64

I think this is a bad idea. Mainly becuase a players ability in football cant be judged correctly based soley on stats. Sure, maybe Calvin Johnson had a bunch of drops last year but he was also gettign the ball thrown at him into double coverage and pretty much just all the time. They had no other offense. His catch rating shouldnt go down because he had some dropped balls. Your view is too simplistic for a game that is extremely complex. Baseball players hit the ball or dont. It is much easier to quantify than football.

t. daley

Well i don't think a football player gets penalized for a ball not caught while properly defended. Dropped passes are always referred to by a simple uncontested drop. Secondly there is no way to accurately rate any of these players in the game. How do you quantify an OL. How do you quantify speed ( they dont make these guys run the 40)?
There has to be a format for rating players. In the past the devs when interviewed said that most players rating were based on a public perception of what they thought a player to be. Well that is BS way of doing things and that is why gamers and Actual NFL players complain about the stats. If you don't use performance as a cornerstone of the rating system then the rating system is garbage. Prime example is LT on the chargers. Everyone know LT had a somewhat less than stellar year down the stretch due in part to injury but poor none the less, yet his Madden stats were not affected to display ths. That is the problem with the stats system in the game. If your going to attemp to adjust players stats then you need to have a system from which to do it otherwise don't bother, it just pisses people off.

Fox

"Well i don't think a football player gets penalized for a ball not caught while properly defended."
Actually, if a guy catches the ball and had it knocked out of his hands, it would count as a drop. Just saying. That's why you can judge baseball solely on stats, but not football. For instance, shutdown corners don't usually have as many interceptions because people aren't dumb enough to throw their way a lot. Case in point-Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders.

Anyway, the rest of this particular post was pretty agreeable…

Josh

Any news on REFS & CHAINGANGS yet?
Josh

Any news on REFS & CHAINGANGS yet?
chris

josh you guys want refs on the field, but if you lose a game cus the ref was in front of your throw you would complain. if your player/ the ball go through the ref people would be pissed. personally the chaingangs is a great idea but people will complain if the refs mess up the game.
chris

josh you guys want refs on the field, but if you lose a game cus the ref was in front of your throw you would complain. if your player/ the ball go through the ref people would be pissed. personally the chaingangs is a great idea but people will complain if the refs mess up the game.
James

Hey Pasta, do you know if the rating system will be exponential or linear?
James

Hey Pasta, do you know if the rating system will be exponential or linear?
Acreyman

Well after reading the ENTIRE article I noticed at the end something that alot of us have been asking for as well. Bigger jumps in OVR, both positive and negative. I hated it when when a guy near the end of his career dropped from like a 95 to a 91. Why would you NOT want a guy that was a 91 rating on your team? Except for maybe some salary cap reasons a 91 player is not going anywhere if I can help it. I want to see a guy like Zach Thomas go from a 90 to like a 75 during the course of a year and even worse in the off season so you cut a guy like that like you would in real life. You might take a salary cap hit but if you are paying 10mil a year for the the guy then you will gladly take the hit. id also like to see a guy loose OVR based on the beating they take throughout their career. Some running backs get 5-7 good years as a starter and then all of the sudden they are done. Their bodies just got the crap beat out of them and thats that. I would love to see a 6 year RB all the sudden drop in ratings during the season because u used him to ground pound all the time and he is just wore out.

Acreyman

one more thing, I want a QB RELEASE rating in MADDEN and NCAA. How fast a QB gets rid of the ball is a major factor in real life and it would make a HUGE impact in the game.

KRIS

u got fantastic ideas…y cant EA think of these kinda things?

Acreyman

Well after reading the ENTIRE article I noticed at the end something that alot of us have been asking for as well. Bigger jumps in OVR, both positive and negative. I hated it when when a guy near the end of his career dropped from like a 95 to a 91. Why would you NOT want a guy that was a 91 rating on your team? Except for maybe some salary cap reasons a 91 player is not going anywhere if I can help it. I want to see a guy like Zach Thomas go from a 90 to like a 75 during the course of a year and even worse in the off season so you cut a guy like that like you would in real life. You might take a salary cap hit but if you are paying 10mil a year for the the guy then you will gladly take the hit. id also like to see a guy loose OVR based on the beating they take throughout their career. Some running backs get 5-7 good years as a starter and then all of the sudden they are done. Their bodies just got the crap beat out of them and thats that. I would love to see a 6 year RB all the sudden drop in ratings during the season because u used him to ground pound all the time and he is just wore out.

Acreyman

one more thing, I want a QB RELEASE rating in MADDEN and NCAA. How fast a QB gets rid of the ball is a major factor in real life and it would make a HUGE impact in the game.

KRIS

u got fantastic ideas…y cant EA think of these kinda things?

footballgamer

The dev team has definitely stepped up to the plate on this one….while not huge, they are starting to listen to its customers. One thing that I'm craving for is some sort of Team DNA similar to what Live did this year…..combine that with the ratings fix their doing now, it would be great. First and foremost, they need to fix the player interaction in the trenches…..its still non-existent…..and i still have a difficult time getting to the QB because of that.
footballgamer

The dev team has definitely stepped up to the plate on this one….while not huge, they are starting to listen to its customers. One thing that I'm craving for is some sort of Team DNA similar to what Live did this year…..combine that with the ratings fix their doing now, it would be great. First and foremost, they need to fix the player interaction in the trenches…..its still non-existent…..and i still have a difficult time getting to the QB because of that.
lukum58

well first of all they first have to fix some ratings where they should be on some people like michael jenkins,roddy white,michael turner,jerious norwood,matt ryan,harry douglas,justin peele,sam baker,lawyer milloy,curtis lofton,john abraham you know just to name a few.they have to fix those ratings first.they should not just focus on the popular players like t.o. brett farve or plaxico burress. and if anyone wants to play me my name is my gamertag so if ya have ps3 come get sum!
lukum58

well first of all they first have to fix some ratings where they should be on some people like michael jenkins,roddy white,michael turner,jerious norwood,matt ryan,harry douglas,justin peele,sam baker,lawyer milloy,curtis lofton,john abraham you know just to name a few.they have to fix those ratings first.they should not just focus on the popular players like t.o. brett farve or plaxico burress. and if anyone wants to play me my name is my gamertag so if ya have ps3 come get sum!
lukum58

and for gods sake jerious norwood has longer hair than he does in the game and hes much faster too
lukum58

and for gods sake jerious norwood has longer hair than he does in the game and hes much faster too
blitz

I think the only logical way to do the stats is to take the players past performances stat wise when possible over the length of there career and avg it out then apply a numberical value to those attributes. Its not perfect but I think the important things in there will be accounted for.
blitz

I think the only logical way to do the stats is to take the players past performances stat wise when possible over the length of there career and avg it out then apply a numberical value to those attributes. Its not perfect but I think the important things in there will be accounted for.
blondeviking64

They way I see it, there are only 5 elite WRs in the NFL right now. The same can be said for almost any position really. I dont think there is one position in football that has 5 elite players. I have to say that I dont consider anyplayer having one great year as elite under any circumstances. M.Turner and D.WIlliams sorry. I am big fans especially of turner the burner, but that is the truth. I also think that the most recent stats are the most important ones. Is TO an elite receiver, no. Not anymore at least. I also think that game tape needs to be watched in order to figure out a players rating. Stats lie pretty much all the time. I also think that a RB who gets 1k yards isnt special at all. (67 yards/game is pretty weak) 1300 is a much more accurate number to look at the success of a rb. I think the guys at EA really just need a new perspective on rating player and it doesnt come from the anouncers booth.

James

I second everything you just said!

blondeviking64

They way I see it, there are only 5 elite WRs in the NFL right now. The same can be said for almost any position really. I dont think there is one position in football that has 5 elite players. I have to say that I dont consider anyplayer having one great year as elite under any circumstances. M.Turner and D.WIlliams sorry. I am big fans especially of turner the burner, but that is the truth. I also think that the most recent stats are the most important ones. Is TO an elite receiver, no. Not anymore at least. I also think that game tape needs to be watched in order to figure out a players rating. Stats lie pretty much all the time. I also think that a RB who gets 1k yards isnt special at all. (67 yards/game is pretty weak) 1300 is a much more accurate number to look at the success of a rb. I think the guys at EA really just need a new perspective on rating player and it doesnt come from the anouncers booth.

James

I second everything you just said!

t.daley

Not exactly sure how you would quantify that acreyman. I kind of know what your thinking but you cant quatify that with a stat number. Everyone knows Dan Marino was the greatest at getting rid of the ball quickly and some scrub QB's hold on to the ball too long. But alot of that depends on there ability to read the defense and hit the target. Sometime a QB needs to check down which will require holding the ball a bit longer than usual. Also any number you assign to this would be negligible in online play since you the player controls the release. I do however think that the throwing of the ball should require the analog stick in conjuction with the receiver button selection meaning that you should have to position the analog stick in the direction of the intended receiver in addition to pressing the receiver button.

acreyman

I was thinking that the release from when the QB makes his decision should be short, medium, or long. So a QB decides to throw, you being the QB obvioulsy, u might take a sec to hit the button but the other guy next to you might take half a sec…see what i mean. So the way i would do this is when the button is pressed, say the X reciever, it takes the QB a certain amount of time to get the ball to him. If your Romo the ball comes out quick, if your Lynch it comes out a little slower. I dunno but it seems like that might be cool to add.

t.daley

Not exactly sure how you would quantify that acreyman. I kind of know what your thinking but you cant quatify that with a stat number. Everyone knows Dan Marino was the greatest at getting rid of the ball quickly and some scrub QB's hold on to the ball too long. But alot of that depends on there ability to read the defense and hit the target. Sometime a QB needs to check down which will require holding the ball a bit longer than usual. Also any number you assign to this would be negligible in online play since you the player controls the release. I do however think that the throwing of the ball should require the analog stick in conjuction with the receiver button selection meaning that you should have to position the analog stick in the direction of the intended receiver in addition to pressing the receiver button.

acreyman

I was thinking that the release from when the QB makes his decision should be short, medium, or long. So a QB decides to throw, you being the QB obvioulsy, u might take a sec to hit the button but the other guy next to you might take half a sec…see what i mean. So the way i would do this is when the button is pressed, say the X reciever, it takes the QB a certain amount of time to get the ball to him. If your Romo the ball comes out quick, if your Lynch it comes out a little slower. I dunno but it seems like that might be cool to add.

James

MAKE THE RATING SYSTEM EXPONENTIAL ALSO!!
James

MAKE THE RATING SYSTEM EXPONENTIAL ALSO!!
Josh

Refs are part of an NFL game like it or not. Even if they do occasionally get in the way so what! That's part of the game! Not having refs on the field takes away from the realism of the game big time! Not to mention no collision detection on the sidelines, no progressive lighting, players getting up & walking off of the field on their own after an injury, etc… I could go on & on. EA needs to take a page from MLB the Show & realize that little details do make a huge difference!
Josh

Refs are part of an NFL game like it or not. Even if they do occasionally get in the way so what! That's part of the game! Not having refs on the field takes away from the realism of the game big time! Not to mention no collision detection on the sidelines, no progressive lighting, players getting up & walking off of the field on their own after an injury, etc… I could go on & on. EA needs to take a page from MLB the Show & realize that little details do make a huge difference!
Jim

this could either be good or bad depending on how you look at it

this ratings system seperates elites from good, good from average, etc. this could mean that everyone simply uses the patriots now since Moss and Brady are both considered elites. i dont know man i think i smell cheese
Jim

this could either be good or bad depending on how you look at it

this ratings system seperates elites from good, good from average, etc. this could mean that everyone simply uses the patriots now since Moss and Brady are both considered elites. i dont know man i think i smell cheese
Willy2535

How come shaun alexander has been removed from madden 09??? hes only been released so he sohuld be in the free agency, unless hes retired and madden are the only people who know about it? can anyone elighten me on the situation im a seahawks fan and i still like alexander and is he going to be in the free agency for madden 2010
Willy2535

How come shaun alexander has been removed from madden 09??? hes only been released so he sohuld be in the free agency, unless hes retired and madden are the only people who know about it? can anyone elighten me on the situation im a seahawks fan and i still like alexander and is he going to be in the free agency for madden 2010
ken

am i the only one that thinks this is going to be a BAD idea? They couldnt even get the ratings anywhere near realistic and they had 17+ weeks of updates and tweaks, that resulted in matt forte and a whole gaggle of unproven rookies ranking in the elite upper echelons of superstars, i like how they are being more realistic with the 99 ratings (but they should have been doing that already) following their logic though my skins (playoff contender pretty much every year for 5 years) are going to be a 77 with the cowboys giants and eagles in the high 80s, so were a better team than the eagles but ranked 10 points lower and probably on similar ratings level with the niners, rams and packers? That just doesnt make sense so again i reiterate this is a bad idea, the idiom bandaid on a boken arm comes to mind, id say redo the whole ratings system but im afraid theyd put out something similar to madden 08 (look up unplayable in the dictionary youll find it)

James

id say redo the whole ratings system but im afraid theyd put out something similar to madden 08 (look up unplayable in the dictionary youll find it) <——–This statement hilariously true!!! haha

ken

am i the only one that thinks this is going to be a BAD idea? They couldnt even get the ratings anywhere near realistic and they had 17+ weeks of updates and tweaks, that resulted in matt forte and a whole gaggle of unproven rookies ranking in the elite upper echelons of superstars, i like how they are being more realistic with the 99 ratings (but they should have been doing that already) following their logic though my skins (playoff contender pretty much every year for 5 years) are going to be a 77 with the cowboys giants and eagles in the high 80s, so were a better team than the eagles but ranked 10 points lower and probably on similar ratings level with the niners, rams and packers? That just doesnt make sense so again i reiterate this is a bad idea, the idiom bandaid on a boken arm comes to mind, id say redo the whole ratings system but im afraid theyd put out something similar to madden 08 (look up unplayable in the dictionary youll find it)

James

id say redo the whole ratings system but im afraid theyd put out something similar to madden 08 (look up unplayable in the dictionary youll find it) <——–This statement hilariously true!!! haha

ken

i have an annoying feeling thats what 10 is gonna be like but since EA is listening to the community this time around i have hope they might not try and reinvent the wheel again….
ken

i have an annoying feeling thats what 10 is gonna be like but since EA is listening to the community this time around i have hope they might not try and reinvent the wheel again….
amin

Deangelo Hall better be at he least an 88 overall he had 5 picks
amin

Deangelo Hall better be at he least an 88 overall he had 5 picks