God vs. Evolution

[JTRaines92]

Whats your Opinion on Religion?
&
And what Religion are you?

If you don't mind sharing it with everyone.....

[Rouchicus]

I'm evolution. I was not raised in a religious family at all. It's just hard for me to buy into religion.

[Patriots25]

I'm evolution. I was not raised in a religious family at all. It's just hard for me to buy into religion.

Well I was raised in a highly religious family and I was conned into praying every night when I was a little kid but when I got older around high school I started to realize that the logic just didn't add up for religion.

Either way Religion and Evolution CAN'T CO-EXIST! The Bible claims the Earth is 5,000 or so years old, yet scientists find dinosaur remains from millions of years ago and human bodies from 10,000+ years ago. LOL

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

The bible isn't the only religious document lol

they both can co-exist, and in my mind, do.

...I'm writing a paper, so I can't get too in depth ATM...

Food for thought: Where did the first material--genetic, organic, non-organic, atomic, take your pick--come from? from what did it generate, is what I mean.

Then, how come there is succinct patterns in the universe, even though much of what happens appears to be completely random?

Then, how do you explain the actual evolution we can prove scientifically?


oh this too:

lol

[Patriots25]

The bible isn't the only religious document lol

they both can co-exist, and in my mind, do.

...I'm writing a paper, so I can't get too in depth ATM...

Food for thought: Where did the first material--genetic, organic, non-organic, atomic, take your pick--come from? from what did it generate, is what I mean.

Then, how come there is succinct patterns in the universe, even though much of what happens appears to be completely random?

Then, how do you explain the actual evolution we can prove scientifically?


oh this too:

the same can be said about God. Was there a completely random occurrence that created God? I don't see how God just magically appeared out of nowhere. Its not like there can be advancements in religion in things like the bible though. Its stayed the same for 2000 years. Evolution and Science keep advancing at a record rate - almost doubling every few years. Before we die we will have a lot more answers than we do now from evolution but I doubt the same will be able to be said about religion. I think its just stupid to equate what we don't know to some magical all powerful being.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

What is "God"?

Define him/it before you say what it can/cannot be. At least define what you think he/it is.

All I said was logic tells me nothing physical can just appear. There is an origin for everything.

['Sider]

Whats the over/under on this thing getting closed or moved to the HOF

[Patriots25]

What is "God"?

Define him/it before you say what it can/cannot be. At least define what you think he/it is.

All I said was logic tells me nothing physical can just appear. There is an origin for everything.

Well I am a believer in the Big Bang Theory. Beyond that I don't have any answers. But I'd rather believe life was created from that then poof outta nowhere. I define God as the one in the bible, the deity who is omnipotent and omniscient who created everything there is in 7 days.

[Rouchicus]

Lol....future Moz


I feel like the line between closed/HoF is a blurry one at best.:ninja:

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Then at least know the source you quote.

The Big Bang Theory doesn't preclude the potential that the Big bang is an event that was made.

Also, "God" didn't create the universe in 7 days. it took Moses 7 days to document the process. (Assuming you agree that those events in the Bible are somewhat credible). Moses was taken to a place outside of time to see the creation occur.

I kinda wish people at least knew the actual story behind the stories in the Bible.

[moz]

lol

[Patriots25]

Then at least know the source you quote.

The Big Bang Theory doesn't preclude the potential that the Big bang is an event that was made.

Also, "God" didn't create the universe in 7 days. it took Moses 7 days to document the process. (Assuming you agree that those events in the Bible are somewhat credible). Moses was taken to a place outside of time to see the creation occur.

I kinda wish people at least knew the actual story behind the stories in the Bible.

everyone has their different interpretations of the things in the bible, I said 7 days because that is what I was taught through the church growing up. Mind you I haven't been to a bibly study since I was 13

[moz]

Either way Religion and Evolution CAN'T CO-EXIST!
Ah, nothing like a little duality to fuck with your mind.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

lol

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z266/ocweeklycrew/colbertCalledIt.jpg

[moz]

everyone has their different interpretations of the things in the bible, I said 7 days because that is what I was taught through the church growing up. Mind you I haven't been to a bibly study since I was 13
Yeah, bible study is always a bad place to learn about the bible ironically.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

everyone has their different interpretations of the things in the bible, I said 7 days because that is what I was taught through the church growing up. Mind you I haven't been to a bibly study since I was 13



Have an interpretation then, that's a cop-out to just say something without knowing.

What exactly where you taught? It doesn't say in the bible anywhere that the world was made in 7 days.

[moz]

Can we entertain that they were both created for the purpose of duality?

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

moz, of course we can't lol

we can't even discuss it, even though that's the point of threads like this

[Patriots25]

Have an interpretation then, that's a cop-out to just say something without knowing.

What exactly where you taught? It doesn't say in the bible anywhere that the world was made in 7 days.

its somewhere in genesis where 7 days is mentioned, I think around Genesis 2. I'll look it up in my bible later. But I think Religion itself is saying something without knowing. My interpretation is that most of it (the bible) is fucking bullshit. I think Jesus Christ did exist but he was more of a revolutionary figure in his time that people equated to being more than what he was. The stories of Jesus Christ are amazing but if I believed The Bible to be true then I would have to believe the stories of Jonah and Noah which I think are works of pure story-telling fairy tale.

[moz]

its somewhere in genesis where 7 days is mentioned, I think around Genesis 2. I'll look it up in my bible later. But I think Religion itself is saying something without knowing. My interpretation is that most of it (the bible) is fucking bullshit. I think Jesus Christ did exist but he was more of a revolutionary figure in his time that people equated to being more than what he was. The stories of Jesus Christ are amazing but if I believed The Bible to be true then I would have to believe the stories of Jonah and Noah which I think are works of pure story-telling fairy tale.
7 days is just symbolism.

Adam & Eve= Atom & Electron

[Patriots25]

here we go, this is straight from the holy bible that I bought from Barnes and Noble - which has been mass produced in the millions. It also says things about day 1-6 but I cant type out the whole damn page of the bible.

Genesis 2:2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work he had made.

Genesis 2:3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Who wrote it, when was it written, where was it written.

I know, but I'm interested in seeing if you do. Those words are useless without proper context.

EDIT: context being from the Bible, not outside texts. Meaning what I'm going to reply with comes from the Bible.

[moz]

here we go, this is straight from the holy bible that I bought from Barnes and Noble - which has been mass produced in the millions. It also says things about 6th day etc. but I cant type out the whole damn page of the bible.

Genesis 2:2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work he had made.

Genesis 2:3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Again, it's not literal. The number 7 represents completion.

[moz]

BTW, every religion practiced in the world is basically a sun cult. They worship the "Son= Sun" of the all seeing eye (God). Remember, "Let there be light...."?

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

moz, I disagree somewhat.

the Sun could be allegorical to the Son, not the other way around.

[moz]

moz, I disagree somewhat.

the Sun could be allegorical to the Son, not the other way around.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3IybbeoDTpg/R_vwJpjT7AI/AAAAAAAAAXc/w1wARfIeRnE/s400/pope.jpg

[Patriots25]

Again, it's not literal. The number 7 represents completion.

from the way it is worded in the bible I think the average christian such as I once was would interpret it in that way. Then again, the average christian is a dumbass, such as myself. So I'll let that go. If it is a work of nonfiction I'm going to take what it says literally.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

lol Moz Christianity isn't exactly what I was referring to.


I think they are bass ackwards in lots of places...so thinking that, wouldn't my thought that Son=Sun makes sense since it's clear they are based off of Sun=Son?

lol @ that pic though

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

from the way it is worded in the bible I think the average christian such as I once was would interpret it in that way. Then again, the average christian is a dumbass, such as myself. So I'll let that go. If it is a work of nonfiction I'm going to take what it says literally.

k (my understanding of the story):

Moses wrote the book of Genesis when he was called to the 'third heaven' on Sinai. This process was documented in Exodus (I think), which chronologically means Exodus is the literal first book of the Bible, as the events in Exodus predate the events in Genesis, since they are just documented visions and the actual timeframe is in dispute). In this state he physically was still on the mountain, but psychologically and spiritually was taken to a higher understanding. During a week's period, he was 'taken up' and brought back so he could document what he saw. What he saw occurred here in 24 hour intervals, but in that higher state time didn't exist, so he could have been gone for millenia. Also Disputed.

[moz]

lol Moz Christianity isn't exactly what I was referring to.


I think they are bass ackwards in lots of places...so thinking that, wouldn't my thought that Son=Sun makes sense since it's clear they are based off of Sun=Son?

lol @ that pic though
What were you referring to?

[moz]

from the way it is worded in the bible I think the average christian such as I once was would interpret it in that way. Then again, the average christian is a dumbass, such as myself. So I'll let that go. If it is a work of nonfiction I'm going to take what it says literally.
That's the point.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

...it's not a religion, so I retract my disagreement. lol

[Wratheux]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/denk2/FlyingSpaghettiMonster.png

[raczilla]

If a car sits in your driveway for 1,000 years, does it ever evolve? Case closed.

[HAZE]

If a car sits in your driveway for 1,000 years, does it ever evolve? Case closed.

If it started out as a muffler, yes it does.

['Sider]

http://tehpwnz.de/misc/pics/fun/jesus-thread-sucks.gif

['Sider]

http://gamesnet.vo.llnwd.net/o1/gamestar/objects/312984_main.jpg

LOL

[LVradio]

My first thoughts of seeing this thread in the water cooler:

http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/facepalm.jpg


And the poll fails for not giving gray area. There's nothing black and white in this world, especially on this topic, so no matter how strong the argument, if you believe firmly on one or the other, you are wrong.

[Rouchicus]

Silly sniper Jesus.....what will he do next?

[moz]

My first thoughts of seeing this thread in the water cooler:

http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/facepalm.jpg


And the poll fails for not giving gray area. There's nothing black and white in this world, especially on this topic, so no matter how strong the argument, if you believe firmly on one or the other, you are wrong.
That illusion exists and that's why threads like this are stupid lol

[SheriffBooth]

If a car sits in your driveway for 1,000 years, does it ever evolve? Case closed.

Yes, but if you put a severed arm in your driveway would it turn into a person in 1000 years? Like when you cut off a starfish arm or chop an earthworm in half and then you have two starfishes or two earthworms. It's evolution. All I'm saying is you can't compare a machine like a car or muffler with starfish or earthworms - it's just ridiculous RAC.

[Fred]

This has really nothing to do with the thread but i wanted to post Black Jesus

http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg

And where is the pic of Moz as Raptor Jesus.

[moz]

/thread

[CNStars17]

good thing the mods came in and rescued this thread...i thought for sure it was gonna be 5-6 pages of nonsense.

[SheriffBooth]

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9683/mozcopy.png

[Fred]

now we can officially end this thread on that note...

[SheriffBooth]

The concern in Moz's eyes for that little dinosaur is touching.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9683/mozcopy.png

every time I see that little mullet peeking out on the right side I lol

[Fred]

i think it's hilarious that he's sweating so much he glistens in the pic

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

that's not sweat, it's holiness

['Sider]

LOL, Im dyin...

[SheriffBooth]

that's not sweat, it's holiness

It's not holiness, it's "Christ Energy", a registered trademark of the Moz Corporation.

[moz]

It's not holiness, it's "Christ Energy", a registered trademark of the Moz Corporation.
You are so wiley. Too bad I'm too lazy to retaliate via PS lol Good one, sir.

[LVradio]

i think it's hilarious that he's sweating so much he glistens in the pic
that's not sweat, it's holiness


I always wondered why holy water had an odd smell to it when I went to church. I probably got the batch from Moz's ballsack.

[moz]

The funny thing is I don't even believe in the jesus concept, while most of you mfers are running around getting married in churches and praying and shit lol


Also, I think everyone in this thread would have died after that workout except for LV and Masta haha

[Fred]

wasn't the whole point of that pic the fact that you don't believe in the jesus concept? I don't remember.

[SheriffBooth]

You are so wiley. Too bad I'm too lazy to retaliate via PS lol Good one, sir.

I wish I could take credit for creating that. I think it was dcoy - I just found it in an old thread.

[SheriffBooth]

Don't know why this thread isn't in the HOF:

http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2962&highlight=raptor

[Fred]

lol @ the tags in that thread

always right chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=always+right+chico), ay dios (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=ay+dios), chan pennington (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=chan+pennington), christ energy drink (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=christ+energy+drink), conceited chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=conceited+chico), jesus touched me sexually (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=jesus+touched+me+sexually), jesusaurus rex (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=jesusaurus+rex), paleontology nazis (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=paleontology+nazis), raptor chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=raptor+chico), raptor jesus (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=raptor+jesus), religious chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=religious+chico), steez (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=steez), sweaty chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=sweaty+chico)

[SheriffBooth]

Love the random "chan pennington" and "steez".

[moz]

wasn't the whole point of that pic the fact that you don't believe in the jesus concept? I don't remember.
Yeah, but the error is in thinking I have to believe in baby dynos because I don't lol

[SheriffBooth]

But if you did believe in baby dinosaurs, you would cradle them lovingly, right?

[MileHighSalute]

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/668289/80523700.jpg

[raczilla]

Who else has refreshed in the hope of seeing Tim Buktu's take on this?

[darkheath]

OK.. well the 1st 3-4 pages of this was interesting conversation. :-p

[Bates]

This has really nothing to do with the thread but i wanted to post Black Jesus

http://www.ethnic2020.com/images/Ebay/black-jesus.jpg

And where is the pic of Moz as Raptor Jesus.

Thank you

[bfdaking]

lol @ the tags in that thread

always right chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=always+right+chico), ay dios (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=ay+dios), chan pennington (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=chan+pennington), christ energy drink (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=christ+energy+drink), conceited chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=conceited+chico), jesus touched me sexually (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=jesus+touched+me+sexually), jesusaurus rex (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=jesusaurus+rex), paleontology nazis (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=paleontology+nazis), raptor chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=raptor+chico), raptor jesus (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=raptor+jesus), religious chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=religious+chico), steez (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=steez), sweaty chico (http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/tags.php?tag=sweaty+chico)

lol at jesusaurus rex

[Baula McGee19]

steez

[HAZE]

Don't know why this thread isn't in the HOF:

http://www.pastapadre.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2962&highlight=raptor

Wow, how did I miss that thread?

I think I clicked on it and said "f0ck this, I'll come back to it later." and never came back.

[Tdoggy]

lol black jesus owns all post in religious threads.

[Maddict]

7 days is just symbolism.

Adam & Eve= Atom & Electron


then whats the snake? ;)

[moz]

then whats the snake? ;)
A baby raptor

[MileHighSalute]

i think religion is a bigger hoax than balloon boy.

[moz]

i think religion is a bigger hoax than balloon boy.
Nice, now all you have to do is convince 3 billion people otherwise.

[Patriots25]

Nice, now all you have to do is convince 3 billion people otherwise.

you can't convince close minded people

[MileHighSalute]

i used to believe in god and jesus and that whole hoopla, but the older i got the less and less it made sense.

[ZoG]

I voted for evolution...not because I care for it or even understand it but I support any vote against god or religion.

with that said, I gotta say that I believe in Batman...and only Batman.

[ddf13_dolphins]

To get back on topic i would have to agree with Moz on this. I am 17 years old and have been forced into religion my whole life. I live in mississippi so down here if you mention the thought of evolution, or the big bang theory your the Devil. Our biology teachers even skip the chapter on evolution. I would like to believe that we started from a form of energy , or something of the matter , then believe in a figure that has not been seen or does not have any proof of exsisting. Except for a bible that could have been changed or rewritten over the years. At least for the argument of evolution. they have proved parts of it to be true, while as the biblle has not. That i know of anyway, correct me if im wrong. Another thing about christianity, i dont understand is the point of using "Jesus" as a scapegoat to releive you of all your sins. To me that is just foolish. Of course you still did wrong. It didnt change the fact that you done it.

[blake1776]

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy in modern Christianity. However, I am a Christian, but a super liberal one. I think the world would be a lot better if people would just fucking listen to what Jesus said.

[ddf13_dolphins]

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy in modern Christianity. However, I am a Christian, but a super liberal one. I think the world would be a lot better if people would just fucking listen to what Jesus said.


I agree with the hypocrisy comment. The religion i metioned is Pennecostal . I have seen people go to church and shout and pray and come home talking about the preacher. Talking about people of the church. Also being from the south, i have heard my share of racist comments, come from people of the church. My great grandmother, is one of these, she will preach to me about the bible , and how i need to get right with God one day, and the next when my black friend comes over, use racial slurrs. Is not racism a sin? That and the lack of evidence in religion is why i have showed no interest, in their form of religion.

[MileHighSalute]

i think its funny that people are at war and/or were at war over religion....your fighting and killing your self for something that might not even exist, fighting and killing your self over something you never even seen or heard before...

[blake1776]

If you have never seen or heard religion before is sad. I was like a lot of you for a long timed, I was raised by an atheist father who instilled those beliefs in me. I always felt empty, once I began to understand Christ, and what he taught, I was able to see above the small town hypocrisy and appreciate what religion offers.

I truly hope that one day everyone can experience something that lets them get a semblance of what religion can be. God loves us all, whether we return it or not.

[Hombre]

i think its funny that people are at war and/or were at war over religion....your fighting and killing your self for something that might not even exist, fighting and killing your self over something you never even seen or heard before...

look up the definition of "faith" and then come back and see your post....

[MileHighSalute]

look up the definition of "faith" and then come back and see your post....

yes... i know about faith...and that i pretty much lost all mine......i was raised a catholic, my grandfather is very religious, never missed a day of church in his life, and i respect that man to death, but i lost faith and belief. But even then, i still find it a bit out of control that these people are fighting for their religions, but when it all comes down they are still fighting for god.

[darkheath]

To get back on topic i would have to agree with Moz on this. I am 17 years old and have been forced into religion my whole life. I live in mississippi so down here if you mention the thought of evolution, or the big bang theory your the Devil. Our biology teachers even skip the chapter on evolution. I would like to believe that we started from a form of energy , or something of the matter , then believe in a figure that has not been seen or does not have any proof of exsisting. Except for a bible that could have been changed or rewritten over the years. At least for the argument of evolution. they have proved parts of it to be true, while as the biblle has not. That i know of anyway, correct me if im wrong. Another thing about christianity, i dont understand is the point of using "Jesus" as a scapegoat to releive you of all your sins. To me that is just foolish. Of course you still did wrong. It didnt change the fact that you done it.

It's nice to see that you learned to think in a rational manner. So many of the kids in your classes won't and the skipping over of the science chapters will only hasten our eventual trip to Idiocracy.

You can see minor proof of evolution just by walking into a 200 year old house. If you've ever done that, did you notice how tall you were? It's small, but it's only been a relatively short amount of time. The average size of a man 200 years ago was something like 5'6" (ever seen a large Civil War uniform?), now it's over 5'9" (I think. I don't have the actual numbers in front of me). But that's a significant change for a mere 200 years or so. Imagine the changes over 10s of thousands of years... or millions.

Oh wait... what the hell am I talking about. The planet is only 5000 years old. :wanker:

[JTRaines92]

If a car sits in your driveway for 1,000 years, does it ever evolve? Case closed.
That is a good point but a car is a final product, it started as something small and it evolved into a car because us humans made it.

[darkheath]

i think its funny that people are at war and/or were at war over religion....your fighting and killing your self for something that might not even exist, fighting and killing your self over something you never even seen or heard before...


Religious war is the scariest kind of war. Irrational people make it hard to guess what they'll do next and they aren't likely to give up. Look at some of the island battles against the Japanese in WWII. Essentially the Emperor WAS their god (thus the correlation), and on a lot of those islands, they quite literally fought to the last dying man. Surrender was not an option.

[darkheath]

That is a good point but a car is a final product, it started as something small and it evolved into a car because us humans made it.


Actually.. if you WANT to use the car analogy, it still works. Sit a car in a driveway for a thousand years and it will still look like the same car (just as our skeletons a thousand years from now will still look the same as we left them). BUT... a thousand years from now, you don't look at the car in the driveway for the evolution... you look at the new cars that are on the road! That's where the evolution will have taken place.

You don't see evolution in yourself, you're the final product of that moment in time. You see the evolution in the species (or in this case, the mode of transportation a thousand years in the future).

[MileHighSalute]

Hell yea man, other wars people kill people, in the mid east people are just blowing them selves up to take others out and sacrifice them selves to "god".

[ImWinnin]

If a car sits in your driveway for 1,000 years, does it ever evolve?
yes, Into a rusty piece of shit that you cant even give away for free to one of those car donation joints:D

[moz]

look up the definition of "faith" and then come back and see your post....
that's where they get you lol

[moz]

If you have never seen or heard religion before is sad. I was like a lot of you for a long timed, I was raised by an atheist father who instilled those beliefs in me. I always felt empty, once I began to understand Christ, and what he taught, I was able to see above the small town hypocrisy and appreciate what religion offers.

I truly hope that one day everyone can experience something that lets them get a semblance of what religion can be. God loves us all, whether we return it or not.
Atheists can be "full" and good people without the help of god. Funny you mention hypocrisy because that's all I saw when I used to go to church and surely I don't feel empty now because I don't go worship at a temple (even though the bible says the temple is in you).


Religion is no different than anything else man created and fucked up.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

If you have never seen or heard religion before is sad. I was like a lot of you for a long timed, I was raised by an atheist father who instilled those beliefs in me. I always felt empty, once I began to understand Christ, and what he taught, I was able to see above the small town hypocrisy and appreciate what religion offers.

I truly hope that one day everyone can experience something that lets them get a semblance of what religion can be. God loves us all, whether we return it or not.


Religion and belief in a higher being are not mutually inclusive.

One can believe that there is a power governing everything, but not feel the need to go to a gathering place, follow current trends (let's be honest, that's all a lot of Christianity--not all, but a lot--is about), and commune with others in a way you are familiar.

Frankly, religion removes some ability to actually become aware of reality IMO, because it limits the way you can think. God himself is limitless, regardless of what you think his name is (I personally think the tetragrammaton transliterated is most accurate, but you may call him just God, or Jehovah)...so why would he want you to impose limits on yourself in that way when we are made in his image and likeness? The only thing that should keep you moral is...well...your true 'self'. That cannot be learned or taught, but you can become aware of it.

If you are following a book to not do wrong things, but otherwise had impulses to do wrong things, the fact that you don't do them is irrelevant. Because the 'you' that you think you are is still wrong. The want to do the immoral is what needs to go, not the act of being immoral. Granted it's better than the alternative (Just being generally evil to people around you), but it isn't what being in tune with spirituality is all about.

It sounds like your dad was more or less a bad atheist, lol

I know some, and they are more moral than Christians I know because they would rather respect others and do so because they themselves would be shamed because of doing wrong to them...whereas Christians sometimes feel they can get away with it, knowingly (meaning not make an error, but plot to do dirt beforehand) and ask forgiveness later. Pretty sure that's not how it should work.

[raczilla]

People are legitimately pondering the car thing. This thread never had a chance.

[moz]

At least we know history does indeed repeat itself.

[raczilla]

At least we know history does indeed repeat itself.

It doesn't say much for the evolution side of the argument. Maybe it will take a while for forum posters to evolve.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

It doesn't say much for the evolution side of the argument. Maybe it will take a while for forum posters to evolve.


Doesn't say much for the God side either, lol

[darkheath]

Religion and belief in a higher being are not mutually inclusive.

One can believe that there is a power governing everything, but not feel the need to go to a gathering place, follow current trends (let's be honest, that's all a lot of Christianity--not all, but a lot--is about), and commune with others in a way you are familiar.

Frankly, religion removes some ability to actually become aware of reality IMO, because it limits the way you can think. God himself is limitless, regardless of what you think his name is (I personally think the tetragrammaton transliterated is most accurate, but you may call him just God, or Jehovah)...so why would he want you to impose limits on yourself in that way when we are made in his image and likeness? The only thing that should keep you moral is...well...your true 'self'. That cannot be learned or taught, but you can become aware of it.

If you are following a book to not do wrong things, but otherwise had impulses to do wrong things, the fact that you don't do them is irrelevant. Because the 'you' that you think you are is still wrong. The want to do the immoral is what needs to go, not the act of being immoral. Granted it's better than the alternative (Just being generally evil to people around you), but it isn't what being in tune with spirituality is all about.

It sounds like your dad was more or less a bad atheist, lol

I know some, and they are more moral than Christians I know because they would rather respect others and do so because they themselves would be shamed because of doing wrong to them...whereas Christians sometimes feel they can get away with it, knowingly (meaning not make an error, but plot to do dirt beforehand) and ask forgiveness later. Pretty sure that's not how it should work.

MS... these are some of the most intelligent words I've seen written in a conversation of this nature. *thumbs up*

Edit: for bad grammar and looking like a moron.

[darkheath]

It doesn't say much for the evolution side of the argument. Maybe it will take a while for forum posters to evolve.

Evolve into what exactly, Rac?

I'm not even sure the point you were trying to make with the car. Originally to me it seemed you were saying that because the car didn't evolve, none of us will. Did I read into that wrong?

[Twelf12]

Evolve into what exactly, Rac?

I'm not even sure the point you were trying to make with the car. Originally to me it seemed you were saying that because the car didn't evolve, none of us will. Did I read into that wrong?

Someone's sense of humor never evolved :rolleyes:

[SheriffBooth]

It doesn't say much for the evolution side of the argument. Maybe it will take a while for forum posters to evolve.

Doesn't say much for the God side either, lol

We can agree that this thread doesn't say much. And that agreement may be victory in and of itself.

[Tokyoo]

This thread was really creepily timed. There's been people walking around campus all week handing out these fliers to attend a lecture on Why Darwin Was Wrong About Evolution: Let ____ _____ and ____ _____ tell you why Evolution is implausible

[blake1776]

Religion and belief in a higher being are not mutually inclusive.

One can believe that there is a power governing everything, but not feel the need to go to a gathering place, follow current trends (let's be honest, that's all a lot of Christianity--not all, but a lot--is about), and commune with others in a way you are familiar.

Frankly, religion removes some ability to actually become aware of reality IMO, because it limits the way you can think. God himself is limitless, regardless of what you think his name is (I personally think the tetragrammaton transliterated is most accurate, but you may call him just God, or Jehovah)...so why would he want you to impose limits on yourself in that way when we are made in his image and likeness? The only thing that should keep you moral is...well...your true 'self'. That cannot be learned or taught, but you can become aware of it.

If you are following a book to not do wrong things, but otherwise had impulses to do wrong things, the fact that you don't do them is irrelevant. Because the 'you' that you think you are is still wrong. The want to do the immoral is what needs to go, not the act of being immoral. Granted it's better than the alternative (Just being generally evil to people around you), but it isn't what being in tune with spirituality is all about.

It sounds like your dad was more or less a bad atheist, lol

I know some, and they are more moral than Christians I know because they would rather respect others and do so because they themselves would be shamed because of doing wrong to them...whereas Christians sometimes feel they can get away with it, knowingly (meaning not make an error, but plot to do dirt beforehand) and ask forgiveness later. Pretty sure that's not how it should work.

No, I understand what you are saying. My Dad is a really good guy, really moral, he just doesn't like religion because of his experiences as a kid.

When I say religion, I mean some type of spirituality in your life. When I was growing up, especially during those tough middle school years, I felt like I had nothing really to lean back on.

I am not saying that Atheists are immoral or that Christians are more moral because they are Christians. I am just saying that spirituality can make a difference in your life, whether than is going to mass and experiencing it, or sitting at home and praying.

I also don't understand why God and Evolution can't go hand in hand.

There are many real world parallels between what the bible says and what has happened to earth. The description of the earth forming in Genesis could be Pangaea. The Garden of Eden is supposedly in the area we now call the middle east where countless wars have been fought since all of time. Seems like a place a lot of people would want.

The oldest living remains of humans have been found in Africa, which makes sense with Adam and Eve being expelled somewhere, Africa is as good a guess as any.

I go to a liberal Catholic school and most here will tell you that they go hand in hand, just furthering their beliefs. I have more but have to go to lunch now.

[nix]

I don't see how one disproves the other.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

No, I understand what you are saying. My Dad is a really good guy, really moral, he just doesn't like religion because of his experiences as a kid.

When I say religion, I mean some type of spirituality in your life. When I was growing up, especially during those tough middle school years, I felt like I had nothing really to lean back on.

I am not saying that Atheists are immoral or that Christians are more moral because they are Christians. I am just saying that spirituality can make a difference in your life, whether than is going to mass and experiencing it, or sitting at home and praying.

I also don't understand why God and Evolution can't go hand in hand.

There are many real world parallels between what the bible says and what has happened to earth. The description of the earth forming in Genesis could be Pangaea. The Garden of Eden is supposedly in the area we now call the middle east where countless wars have been fought since all of time. Seems like a place a lot of people would want.

The oldest living remains of humans have been found in Africa, which makes sense with Adam and Eve being expelled somewhere, Africa is as good a guess as any.

I go to a liberal Catholic school and most here will tell you that they go hand in hand, just furthering their beliefs. I have more but have to go to lunch now.

But the parallels on make sense if you look at the old testament (in particular) as an allegorical text, and not literal. Most people a) don't do that and b) when they do it, don't know what they are looking at anyway.

[darkheath]

I also don't understand why God and Evolution can't go hand in hand.



This is one thing I've never understood either. While i am a proud, moral atheist, I just never understood why the fundamental Christians couldn't at least accept evolution as something that their god put into motion.


I'm sure their unacceptance comes from something some of you others have been alluding to and that's a literal belief in the bible.

[darkheath]

Someone's sense of humor never evolved :rolleyes:

Oh, my sense of humor is pretty highly evolved. For instance, I don't think Will Ferrell movies are funny in the least. ;)

[Patriots25]

This is one thing I've never understood either. While i am a proud, moral atheist, I just never understood why the fundamental Christians couldn't at least accept evolution as something that their god put into motion.


I'm sure their unacceptance comes from something some of you others have been alluding to and that's a literal belief in the bible.

Well the bible SHOULD be taken literally. I mean it is the word of god afterall right? If it wasn't to be taken literally then it would have no credibility.

[darkheath]

Well the bible SHOULD be taken literally. I mean it is the word of god afterall right? If it wasn't to be taken literally then it would have no credibility.


Actually, no. It's the word of people who thought they saw/heard from god.

[Patriots25]

Actually, no. It's the word of people who thought they saw/heard from god.

yeah thats your opinion, but to the believers it IS the word of god and it is marketed to non-believers as the word of God

[darkheath]

yeah thats your opinion, but to the believers it IS the word of god and it is marketed to non-believers as the word of God

Oh, I know that. But I'm just speaking from a point of rationality. ;)

[moz]

Well the bible SHOULD be taken literally. I mean it is the word of god afterall right? If it wasn't to be taken literally then it would have no credibility.
The problem with this post is you have no proof that it's God's word. The Bible is NOT to be taken literal and war in the name of that same God would be considered blasphemy itself.


You see how people like yourself rush to judgment because of god's "alleged" word.

[moz]

This is one thing I've never understood either. While i am a proud, moral atheist, I just never understood why the fundamental Christians couldn't at least accept evolution as something that their god put into motion.


I'm sure their unacceptance comes from something some of you others have been alluding to and that's a literal belief in the bible.
Because duality is a mfer.

[darkheath]

The problem with this post is you have no proof that it's God's word. The Bible is NOT to be taken literal and war in the name of that same God would be considered blasphemy itself.


You see how people like yourself rush to judgment because of god's "alleged" word.


Actually, Moz. I think Patriots25 is on our side. I think this post:

Well the bible SHOULD be taken literally. I mean it is the word of god afterall right? If it wasn't to be taken literally then it would have no credibility.

was in sarcasm.

If i am wrong, Patriots, please forgive me.

[Patriots25]

The problem with this post is you have no proof that it's God's word. The Bible is NOT to be taken literal and war in the name of that same God would be considered blasphemy itself.


You see how people like yourself rush to judgment because of god's "alleged" word.

if the bible is not to be taken literally then it has no credibility at all. Which means its just a bunch of bullshit. I agree with you moz, I think you missed my point...

[ddf13_dolphins]

Another reason why i always shyed away from religion, is because of the constant pushing , that if you dont do this, or dont do that you will burn in hell for eternity. That use to scare me as a young child

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

if the bible is not to be taken literally then it has no credibility at all.


yes, it still does. Principles.

Just like the Book of Changes, Quran, Dao De Jing...they all have some literal effectiveness, but the principle is the important factor.

[blake1776]

It is full of allegory's and stories, just like a lot of human history.

There are certain things that can be translated literally, but the more advanced science gets, imho it just reinforces and proves my beliefs.

If you look at it like a recorded history, with an an understanding of the holy phenomenon that did occur and was truly amazing, it can all work.

If you choose to look at it completely literal then you will run into problems.

It's all in how rational you choose to be.

Also, what was said about religion limiting your understanding of things. I disagree, there is nothing to limit my understanding of things.

Science will never prove or disprove God, I know this, it can only reinforce my beliefs or cause me to change them. I will always know that God exists, or whatever you want to call him/her/it. I will understand Jesus sacrifice and what it means to me, nothing will be able to disprove that.

As long as those few things can never be proved or disproved, which I know them personally to be true, that is all that matters to me.

[James89]

Da Vinci Code ftw :ninja:

[moz]

if the bible is not to be taken literally then it has no credibility at all. Which means its just a bunch of bullshit. I agree with you moz, I think you missed my point...
Gotcha and I see yours too..but I think the issue here is that people actually NEED something like that to change their lives just as much as the ruling classes needed the bible to scare the crap out of the world.


Did it ever occur to anyone that this whole 3D world is one big fabrication and lie? How else could a world like ours exist and supposedly be created by a loving god? In this world, death = beginning of creation. The countless examples on this earth and in space are astonishing. How else could the act of sex be so innocent and trashy at the same time? It's the perfect mind fuck (pun intended).

['Sider]

I have so many opinions and statements on this matter that I could go on and on, but I choose to just sit back and watch :)

I attend church on a weekly basis now, pretty much to show my children that there is a place you can physically go to if you feel you need some sort of spiritual enlightenment. There have been times that I went and the scripture itself has helped me, personally, get through some demons that I could have easily let ruin my life.

I used to feel like I didnt need to physically go to a building just to be save and still dont. I go for the comfort and structure setting for my children and myself. I know my children believe in God and want them to fear him as do I. I know some of you think thats bullshit and what not, but its what helps MY family stick together through tough times.


But, truly, in the end, its all about perception and comfort and can be debated as much as rocket catching and computer AI in Madden....everyones gonna have an opinion.

[SheriffBooth]

You should offer to do a guest sermon at your church on the similarities between faith and rocket catching. You might be preaching to a niche audience, but I bet those few folks would be really into it.

[Patriots25]

It is full of allegory's and stories, just like a lot of human history.

There are certain things that can be translated literally, but the more advanced science gets, imho it just reinforces and proves my beliefs.

If you look at it like a recorded history, with an an understanding of the holy phenomenon that did occur and was truly amazing, it can all work.

If you choose to look at it completely literal then you will run into problems.

It's all in how rational you choose to be.

Also, what was said about religion limiting your understanding of things. I disagree, there is nothing to limit my understanding of things.

Science will never prove or disprove God, I know this, it can only reinforce my beliefs or cause me to change them. I will always know that God exists, or whatever you want to call him/her/it. I will understand Jesus sacrifice and what it means to me, nothing will be able to disprove that.

As long as those few things can never be proved or disproved, which I know them personally to be true, that is all that matters to me.

you said science just reinforces your beliefs, but through science we have proved that stuff like DNA has existed since man has, why couldn't the bible even mention something like that which is such a crucial part of our humanity? why couldn't God give us blueprints of our bodies and how advanced and intricate they are? If they were there from the beginning don't you think that's a big part that God left out about informing us about ourselves and our world??

[blake1776]

I have no idea. I don't try to understand it because I can't. I can't think of a reason for us to need to know everything about everything.

What would God do, be like "Hey moses, by the way, the genetic code..."

Humans have free will and can be corrupted, there is no way to know what we are supposed to know in the ideal sense of life.

The bible speaks of living based on subsistence and love, as well as mercy and giving.

What we humans do is really unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, but we keep doing them, because after all, we are humans.

Here is the best I can do for you:

Facts and principles such as the earth being round Isaiah 40:22 , earth being suspended in nothing Job 26:7 , valleys in the seas 2 Samuel 22:16 , sanitation Deuteronomy 23:12,13 , quarantine Leviticus 13:45-46 , and blood being the source of life Leviticus 17:11 (DNA) ALL these scientific findings were recorded in the Bible hundreds (sometimes thousands) of years before they were “discovered” by scientists. These are just a few examples, there are many, many more.

[Patriots25]

I have no idea. I don't try to understand it because I can't. I can't think of a reason for us to need to know everything about everything.

What would God do, be like "Hey moses, by the way, the genetic code..."

Humans have free will and can be corrupted, there is no way to know what we are supposed to know in the ideal sense of life.

The bible speaks of living based on subsistence and love, as well as mercy and giving.

What we humans do is really unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, but we keep doing them, because after all, we are humans.

Here is the best I can do for you:

lol @ the last part. Oh the bible said, "Blood being the source of life" - yeah yeah that means DNA, yup the bible said it. Take that. That is immense reaching at best. If it was such a profound find in human history I would believe it would get more than one vague line in the bible. Surely someone in history before that time saw a person bleed out and was like - "Yeah, I think you need blood to live."

Also, What you said about "there is no way to know what we are supposed to know in the ideal sense of life."

That is exactly what religious people do in most cases. They equate what they don't know to being done by God. Then who is to say we even are supposed to know we have a higher power? Clearly our own higher power who is supposedly almighty and all-knowing can't communicate with us. Or is that just a testing faith? There is just one excuse after another from the Christian side when it comes to this subject.

[Ayzil]

Have an interpretation then, that's a cop-out to just say something without knowing.

What exactly where you taught? It doesn't say in the bible anywhere that the world was made in 7 days.

Of course it didn't take 7 days. It only took 6, He rested on the seventh.

Big Bang Theory - To me, this is God's biggest ally. "In the beginning there was nothing...then it exploded."

Evolution in the way most people view it is bullshit. From the altered pictures in the old science books to the crazies that blindly believe it today. Even Darwin didn't really believe it. I do, though, think people and animals have slightly evolved over the past couple thousand years due to the enviornments they live in. I do not at all believe we came from monkeys.

Do I believe in God? Yes, I do.

[ddf13_dolphins]

[QUOTE=Ayzil;144437]Of course it didn't take 7 days. It only took 6, He rested on the seventh.

Big Bang Theory - To me, this is God's biggest ally. "In the beginning there was nothing...then it exploded."

Evolution in the way most people view it is bullshit. From the altered pictures in the old science books to the crazies that blindly believe it today. Even Darwin didn't really believe it. I do, though, think people and animals have slightly evolved over the past couple thousand years due to the enviornments they live in. I do not at all believe we came from monkeys.

Do I believe in God? Yes, I do.[/QUOTE/]



There is no way to really tell if it took 6 days. God brought Moses to a different state of mind to document and view the world as it was created. I believe that is refferred as The Third Heaven. may be wrong though. Also there was no 24 hour time period back then so Gods "days" could have been millions of years.. Although i do not believe in the bible as literal. There is just to many contradictions in it for me to take in a serious manner.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

lol @ the last part. Oh the bible said, "Blood being the source of life" - yeah yeah that means DNA, yup the bible said it. Take that. That is immense reaching at best. If it was such a profound find in human history I would believe it would get more than one vague line in the bible. Surely someone in history before that time saw a person bleed out and was like - "Yeah, I think you need blood to live."

Also, What you said about "there is no way to know what we are supposed to know in the ideal sense of life."

That is exactly what religious people do in most cases. They equate what they don't know to being done by God. Then who is to say we even are supposed to know we have a higher power? Clearly our own higher power who is supposedly almighty and all-knowing can't communicate with us. Or is that just a testing faith? There is just one excuse after another from the Christian side when it comes to this subject.

It's somewhat cliche, but the creator DOES speak to us, through us. Really.

He speaks through the adversary (Lucifer, Satan, et. al.), through the physical existence, through spiritual understanding...the biggest thing is we don't know exactly how to receive all of it because we aren't supposed to. At least not yet.

I like how in the Holy Name version of the bible when Moses asked what to tell the people his name was he said 'I will be what I will to be' (NOT I am who am--shit makes no sense). That's what 'God' is--what he wills to be. And Since I think God is everything--literally--we are all 'God'.

If I had to pick a stance clearly ATM I'd say the Man called Jesus (Yahshua is more accurate) was God incarnate. But even that understanding is difficult because if he was all of 'God', how did everything else exist?

Also, I think the first Man was God too...and there was a guy who walked with Moses in the Bible (Joshua...but there was no J in Hebrew, so his name was Yahshua as well) who did acts for Moses that are accredited to him, along with a number of other things that make little sense otherwise.

But in saying all that, it is not provable or disprovable, and actually doesn't make a whole lot of difference if I were right to most people. Because since we are all of the creator, where do you go when you die? Do you 'go' anywhere? Is there a such thing as spiritual afterlife? Reincarnation?

More questions than answers really.

It requires people to have either an open discourse and legitimate questioning of beliefs without negativity, or at the very least respect for others' perspective. I know my perspective has changed lots over the past 5 years, so I don't hold anyone as "ignorant" simply because we disagree.


There is no way to really tell if it took 6 days. God brought Moses to a different state of mind to document and view the world as it was created. I believe that is refferred as The Third Heaven. may be wrong though. Also there was no 24 hour time period back then so Gods "days" could have been millions of years.. Although i do not believe in the bible as literal. There is just to many contradictions in it for me to take in a serious manner.

k (my understanding of the story):

Moses wrote the book of Genesis when he was called to the 'third heaven' on Sinai. This process was documented in Exodus (I think), which chronologically means Exodus is the literal first book of the Bible, as the events in Exodus predate the events in Genesis, since they are just documented visions and the actual timeframe is in dispute). In this state he physically was still on the mountain, but psychologically and spiritually was taken to a higher understanding. During a week's period, he was 'taken up' and brought back so he could document what he saw. What he saw occurred here in 24 hour intervals, but in that higher state time didn't exist, so he could have been gone for millenia. Also Disputed.


I said this earlier lol

[Ayzil]

There is no way to really tell if it took 6 days. God brought Moses to a different state of mind to document and view the world as it was created. I believe that is refferred as The Third Heaven. may be wrong though. Also there was no 24 hour time period back then so Gods "days" could have been millions of years.. Although i do not believe in the bible as literal. There is just to many contradictions in it for me to take in a serious manner.

Ok home slice, I meant the first sentence as a joke.

[myles04]

I have so many opinions and statements on this matter that I could go on and on, but I choose to just sit back and watch :)

I attend church on a weekly basis now, pretty much to show my children that there is a place you can physically go to if you feel you need some sort of spiritual enlightenment. There have been times that I went and the scripture itself has helped me, personally, get through some demons that I could have easily let ruin my life.

I used to feel like I didnt need to physically go to a building just to be save and still dont. I go for the comfort and structure setting for my children and myself. I know my children believe in God and want them to fear him as do I. I know some of you think thats bullshit and what not, but its what helps MY family stick together through tough times.


But, truly, in the end, its all about perception and comfort and can be debated as much as rocket catching and computer AI in Madden....everyones gonna have an opinion.

You should offer to do a guest sermon at your church on the similarities between faith and rocket catching. You might be preaching to a niche audience, but I bet those few folks would be really into it.

now thats a sermon i wouldn't mind listening to

[nix]

Of course it didn't take 7 days. It only took 6, He rested on the seventh.

Big Bang Theory - To me, this is God's biggest ally. "In the beginning there was nothing...then it exploded."

Evolution in the way most people view it is bullshit. From the altered pictures in the old science books to the crazies that blindly believe it today. Even Darwin didn't really believe it. I do, though, think people and animals have slightly evolved over the past couple thousand years due to the enviornments they live in. I do not at all believe we came from monkeys.

Do I believe in God? Yes, I do.

You don't think life could evolve from a single cell organism to all of what you see today over billions of years? Take a look at how a baby develops in the womb. Sort of similar huh.

One of the problems is man cannot comprehend billions of years or the vast distances in space.

[Patriots25]

question for all you out there. Why hasn't "God" made any contact in nearly 2000 years? With all the conflict going on in his name don't you think he'd be like "Hey guys. Let me clear this up for you so you don't go killing each other."

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

question for all you out there. Why hasn't "God" made any contact in nearly 2000 years? With all the conflict going on in his name don't you think he'd be like "Hey guys. Let me clear this up for you so you don't go killing each other."


Because that's not the point. Isn't that obvious?

[Patriots25]

Because that's not the point. Isn't that obvious?

whats the point? for us to kill each other over it? If God has the power to stop it and he doesn't shows how much he gives a fuck about the human race.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

It's not just about us. And we have the ability to stop it. Says more about our inability to be civil than his inability to stop things we don't like.

Also, Divine intervention would be disputed too.


Knowing mankind, you tell me that you believe if God came in human form, proved it with miracles, that 6 billion would believe it? You know that's not true.

[Special Ed XL]

If we came from apes/monkeys

why arent monkeys evolving into humans as we speak

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

stupid question

because everything doesn't evolve the same way

[Griswald]

I would have voted both or undecided if there was the option. I believe in something although I don't know what it is. I believe there's a point to living a decent life, causing no harm to others... being good.

[Patriots25]

It's not just about us. And we have the ability to stop it. Says more about our inability to be civil than his inability to stop things we don't like.

Also, Divine intervention would be disputed too.


Knowing mankind, you tell me that you believe if God came in human form, proved it with miracles, that 6 billion would believe it? You know that's not true.

Probably not human form, but if there was a huge opening in the sky with white light and a real deep voice for the world to see and hear I bet 6 billion people would believe it. Think thats impossible? God has the power to do anything. He can pull it off.

[Patriots25]

If we came from apes/monkeys

why arent monkeys evolving into humans as we speak

we had a common ancestor. Not the ape, but the ancestor before it. Which means one half branched off to become humans and the other half branched off to become apes.

I would have voted both or undecided if there was the option. I believe in something although I don't know what it is. I believe there's a point to living a decent life, causing no harm to others... being good.

being good has nothing to do with being religious. People have a common misconception that all atheists are satanists and bad people which isn't true.

[Special Ed XL]

stupid question

because everything doesn't evolve the same way

i thought it was intelligent and well thought out,
thanks for slap in the face while destroying my self esteem

anyways, i have not even been baptised and im 18, and ive been to church maybe 2 times in my life aka: i know nothing about the bible and stuff, and
evolution seems stupid, so im beleive in neither

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Probably not human form, but if there was a huge opening in the sky with white light and a real deep voice for the world to see and hear I bet 6 billion people would believe it. Think thats impossible? God has the power to do anything. He can pull it off.

There is technology that can simulate what you are referring to, right now. Moz and others here talked about it a while back.

I'm not saying "God" Couldn't I'm saying he won't because that is not what I believe his purpose is. This is evident to me in the nature of men. Now, it could be that this nature was made so that he could disprove it, but I don't think that's the point.

[Patriots25]

you know what im saying though, a "miracle" so impossible that it would humble any man. So do you think God interferes at all with Earth? Or he is just watching and monitoring us? This would also tie into the concept of free will, but if God knows what you will do in the future then does free will really exist or are we on a set path? Too many mindfucks to think of. lol.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

It's not about "monitoring". Free will isn't free IMO. He made us, and we are made of the material he made, which is him, so technically because we are made of him our actions are his, and not ours.

Also, this means the stuff you think is bad God himself is doing. The Devil (Lucifer, etc.), if you believe in there being a polar antithesis to the creator, is God too. The difference is he thinks he is separate, and therefore, deserving of credit all his own.

Again, these are allegorical sayings referencing my limited spiritual understanding. Not saying there is an evil spirit 'guy'.

[Patriots25]

so God is a schizo / split personality. Interesting theory. lol so which side of him is more powerful?

[DEUCE]

lmfao @ the tags in this thread, I need to smoke a blunt before I even go NEAR this topic.

[moz]

so God is a schizo / split personality. Interesting theory. lol so which side of him is more powerful?
They both say they are, how else do you think we'd be in a thread like this at this point in time?

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

There are no 'sides'. Everything works together for one purpose. It's not schizo. Duality isn't schizo.

It's split like it is because men cannot understand it any other way.

Would you believe that God is controlling everything, all the time? I guess the problem with that is too much we think is 'bad' is happening. But it isn't bad to 'God'.

Look at it this way: Would you go out and do people wrong if you knew for a fact that their health was directly tied to yours? Would you do anything damaging to your body intentionally if you knew doing it would hurt your child/wife? No. No one would.

People treat each other wrong because they don't know who they are themselves, and then because they don't understand that everybody is the same person.

[moz]

Duality isn't schizo.


That's the whole problem though. It's the reason for everything "wrong" or "sinful".

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

I think ignorance is the reason for everything wrong. I haven't--at least in the little reading I've done--heard about any more than ONE sin, that being ignorance. Every act that is wrong stems from it.

And wrong is sometimes misrepresented as "unhelpful or non-beneficial to me".

[Patriots25]

There are no 'sides'. Everything works together for one purpose. It's not schizo. Duality isn't schizo.

It's split like it is because men cannot understand it any other way.

Would you believe that God is controlling everything, all the time? I guess the problem with that is too much we think is 'bad' is happening. But it isn't bad to 'God'.

Look at it this way: Would you go out and do people wrong if you knew for a fact that their health was directly tied to yours? Would you do anything damaging to your body intentionally if you knew doing it would hurt your child/wife? No. No one would.

People treat each other wrong because they don't know who they are themselves, and then because they don't understand that everybody is the same person.

ok that is a total mindfuck. So what do you think of the afterlife?

[moz]

I think ignorance is the reason for everything wrong. I haven't--at least in the little reading I've done--heard about any more than ONE sin, that being ignorance. Every act that is wrong stems from it.

And wrong is sometimes misrepresented as "unhelpful or non-beneficial to me".
Ignorance is bliss...you were reading the wrong book. :ninja:

[darkheath]

I think ignorance is the reason for everything wrong. I haven't--at least in the little reading I've done--heard about any more than ONE sin, that being ignorance. Every act that is wrong stems from it.

And wrong is sometimes misrepresented as "unhelpful or non-beneficial to me".


Ignorance is the one sin?

Um.. I'm going to need you to define "ignorance".

I totally don't understand that one. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Weren't Adam & Eve thrown out for eating from the tree of knowledge? They were EXPECTED to stay ignorant.

there's no way ANY of us can not be ignorant of something.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Not sure yet.

I know it'll be nothing like this.

It kinda sucks, because I'd like to believe that all my favored people--family, frineds, etc.--that have died are in a place like the Heaven Christianity says exists, but nothing about what I think is accurate says that's truth.

The individual spirits (souls) that animate humankind obviously return to the creator...which is also a mindfuck considering I said all is within the creator. But the logic I use is he has created everything for a use, a purpose, so the spirits that leave bodies go somewhere they are supposed to be. I don't know that they don't return to bodies, but I'd tend to think they don't.

I know that the spirits are what actually live, they just exist in these physical shells, so if the creator made this creation with the intent of exercising himself in a way to show his strength against opponents of his creating...with that logic the "holy"(knowledgeable, or righteous) spirits would return to a place within the creator of rest and further knowledge. The opposing, negative, evil siprits would be put in a place of eternal torment.

Torment being: Forever being cognizant of being wrong about things, about thinking they are separate from the creator...and never able to become in-tune with him, or one with him. Kept eternally separate.


This sounds more like hell than getting poked with tridents.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Ignorance is bliss...you were reading the wrong book. :ninja:

but no one said knowing the truth would be easy, or fun. :ninja::ninja:

So if Ignorance is bliss, then Knowledge is sorrow right?

[Ayzil]

I thought sorrow was living in Cleveland?

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

I do.


:ninja:

[Ayzil]

Speaking of Ohio, there's a chance I'll be moving to Dayton in a year.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Really? Interesting. Keep me posted.

[LVradio]

Speaking of Ohio, there's a chance I'll be moving to Dayton in a year.
YES

[moz]

YES
Being a wing man is always nice.

[nix]

Heaven is a giant boobie and I'm a hand.

[Ayzil]

If I gotta babysit LV, I'm not going.

and someone thank me. Having 666 isn't sitting right.

[SheriffBooth]

Ignorance is bliss...you were reading the wrong book. :ninja:

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/South-Park-33.jpg

['Sider]

You should offer to do a guest sermon at your church on the similarities between faith and rocket catching. You might be preaching to a niche audience, but I bet those few folks would be really into it.


Funny story, when I was stationed in Groton, CT for Sub School and my ET A School, all around base, we seen these pamphlets attached to telephone polls, all over the Anex building and shit promoting "Free Paintballing" on Sundays. Well, when you are on a single mans salary (Nina and I werent married so I didnt get spouse or dependent pay), anything free is a bonus.

So, one of my friends (shipmate lol) went one Sunday. He came back, grinning ear to ear about his experience. I should have known something was up by his devilish grin but took in his story. He said that they picked him up at the Anex along with some other guys and they headed to "the place". He said they pulled up to this church and a guy came out. He said they were unable to "reserve" a spot for paintballing that week, but instead, invited them in for service and a HUGE dinner planned afterwards. He said they ate afterwards and the shuttle brought them back to base. Now, I left a big part out because I wanted to explain it to you from MY perspective.

We were all happy to hear he had a good time and a bunch of us agreed to go the next Sunday. He didnt disclose what REALLY happened out of pranking us, one Ive long admired and probably the reason I love pranking people now. So, the following Sunday arrives and theres like thirty of us, so they have to call for another shuttle. We were ready for some paintball and food, home cooked food at that. Galley food wasnt cutting it anymore and its always good to get something cooked fresh instead of that shit. So we pulled up, to the church, and the same guy (according to my friend) came out and spilled the same shit to us that he did last week; no reservation for paintball but an invitation to church and dinner. EVERYBODY went back with the shuttle, cursed the guy out and everything lol, but five of us stayed. We went into the church and found a seat about midway through the sanctuary.

About half way through the service, I see this paper airplane fly through the air. Im thinking "Ok, some kid thought it was cute to do that shit and his parents probably will beat him to death after service." Ten minutes passed, another plane flew by. I was like W T F!!! At this point, the "preacher" was getting more involved in his service and planes started showing up everywhere, left, right, loopty lupe planes, everthing. It looked like a fucking WW2 airspace in there. Then, and I swear on my fathers grave, I seen something that not only appauled me, but shocked me to the point where I joined in lol........I seen a guy stand up, THROW a hymnal at the pulpit (preachers stand) and then, shit went crazy. People were throwing Bibles, Hymnals, airplanes....it was nuts. I honestly thought I was on a hidden camera show, looking around for hidden cameras and shit. FInally, I just chucked a hymnal up on stage and after a while, things died back down and he concluded service. The sanctuary looked like a warzone. As we walked outside, the "members" asked us to stay for dinner. The tables were FULL of home cooked food, fried chicken, pot roast, corn on the cob, green beans....everything, it was like an Amish Buffet, everything was cooked fresh and looked to be home grown.

While we were eating, we kept getting approached by the members to "join" the church, ASAP. They wanted to baptize us that day, make us full blown members. I had enough, I stood up (after eating hehehehe) and stated "This is complete bullshit, where in the fuck is the paint ball shit".

I was asked nicely to leave with my friends so we called the shuttle and they came and picked us up. I swear, it was the craziest experience I think Ive ever been involved in. I felt bad for tossing up that hymnal but I thought if I played along hard enough, there HAD to be some benefit out of it other than some fucking food.

The sailor came out in all of us, we started cursing profusely at why were we duped and scammed into thinking there was free paintball when in fact they wanted us to join some paper plane tossing sect.

I remember the kids were crying as we drove off. I guess the language being used was pretty rough, but we were duped out of one of our off days for that bullshit. Crazy. I tell people at my church this story now and they just die laughing. Ive never heard of a "paper airplane, bible tossing religion" in my life lol

[moz]

lol shipmate....I surely don't miss that.

['Sider]

Didnt they just run that shit into the ground..."Aye Shipmate"....mutha fucka, we aint even seen a boat yet

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

I've heard of bible thumping, but bible tossing?:confused2:

['Sider]

Yea, it was rough man, I didnt know WTF was going on. All I knew is that I was in the middle of a bunch of wackos tossing shit around and could have easily taken one to the head lol

[SheriffBooth]

Did the paper tossers offer you a tossed salad?

['Sider]

Nah, no salad tossing, but I did finally find out how to make one of those paper planes that do the loops and spins

[nix]

Started God vs. Evolution and ended with salad tossing.

[SheriffBooth]

Started God vs. Evolution and ended with salad tossing.

Smells like victory to me.

[LVradio]

If I gotta babysit LV, I'm not going.

and someone thank me. Having 666 isn't sitting right.
I stopped shitting myself a year ago. You have nothing to worry about.

[Rouchicus]

Congrats on giving up shitting yourself. That's a big step for anybody.

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

I'm comfortable in saying I don't, but I cant say I won't.

[Rouchicus]

You never know what's gonna happen.

[BookerT316]

Does it matter what came first? Is it that important to prove that God didn't create the Hevans and the Earth. Or did we once crall on all fours? If you belive or don't you do belive in something. The Greatest trick the Delvil ever played was to make you not belive in God.

[Patriots25]

Does it matter what came first? Is it that important to prove that God didn't create the Hevans and the Earth. Or did we once crall on all fours? If you belive or don't you do belive in something. The Greatest trick the Delvil ever played was to make you not belive in God.

no the point is the religions pray on peoples fear and insecurities and it the biggest blind multi-billion dollar BUSINESS in the world today. And there are so many of them that ask you to join and donate. If God really did make contact he would have 1 religion for all to follow.

[BookerT316]

no the point is the religions pray on peoples fear and insecurities and it the biggest blind multi-billion dollar BUSINESS in the world today. And there are so many of them that ask you to join and donate. If God really did make contact he would have 1 religion for all to follow.



Ok, if that is true then who first showed you the way? Your Mother or your Father? Or some Teacher/ Professor?

Man's inhumanity to Man is why people don't have some kind of faith. Just about 50years ago or so a man of color would of been hung for looking at a white women. But religion changed that. And Religion showed a country of the ills that we lived with, not Evolution.

This country was based on a belief based on religion. And what is even better is that you and all who belive in evolution do belive and live with morals, in which is religion.

[Tokyoo]

Leave it to Booker to bring a thread back on-topic... wait, what?

[moz]

But religion changed that.
lol


Religion has killed more people than we can count. You're confusing spirituality with religion and that's exactly what they want you to do. Being a servant to this so called jealous god is certainly not the way to find out who you are.

I refuse to buy into this good vs. evil, god vs devil, orchestrated crap.

[Patriots25]

Ok, if that is true then who first showed you the way? Your Mother or your Father? Or some Teacher/ Professor?

Man's inhumanity to Man is why people don't have some kind of faith. Just about 50years ago or so a man of color would of been hung for looking at a white women. But religion changed that. And Religion showed a country of the ills that we lived with, not Evolution.

This country was based on a belief based on religion. And what is even better is that you and all who belive in evolution do belive and live with morals, in which is religion.

I would think we could have figured out moral values without religion. How come religion didn't stop slavery? I'm sure that back then slave owners were not all atheists. Hitler was religious, and he planned out and executed one of the worst genocides of all time. Then to bring up people like the IRA, Al Queda, who are all terrorist groups based on religion.

[LVradio]

I had an epiphany just recently. The reason why there are all these beliefs systems and theories is because even if there is one that is absolutely true, due to anti-trust laws, the truth cannot be a monopoly. It's always the fucking government isn't it?

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

And what is even better is that you and all who belive in evolution do belive and live with Religion, in which is morals.

fixed

you had the words mixed up book

religion is a system by which morals are supposed to be implemented. Problem is, people forget the morals part and focus on the system part, wanting theirs to be the right one.

The point isn't to be right, it's to be right.

Meaning, follow morals, or 'the right way', and the system will follow. Meaning, if you do the right thing and only that, that in itself is the system.

The second you think doing something in itself is the "saving" factor you've missed the boat.

Example: I remember being taught the communion process is to remind you the gravity of the last meal Christ had with his disciples. That is what it was for.

In a bubble, thinking about this during the process should have, if you believed in it, had you mentally in a better, more empathetic place.

Instead, Christians take the event itself as if it was important, basically making it a pagan idol worship (worshiping the triscuit).

...that's why I focus only on that which may be right. If the system by which that right is delivered changes, so be it. I'm not tied to it. I'm not perfect, so I may be going about it wrong. But that's part of the process too, being a fallible human and all. I do know that no one system is the right way to attain as complete awareness as is possible in my lifetime. Not to know everything, but to know as much as I possibly can, limiting myself to a system prevents that.

Just allowing empathetic instincts as a barometer to guide me has worked very well so far. I've found people in all walks with different viewpoints saying the same thing--meaning where they worship all teach the right things...but people tend to take it the wrong way.

That's why I think everyone is right, and wrong. at once. People don't know they don't know, so they think that they can learn. But until they know they don't know, being ignorant of their actual ignorance prevent any real knowledge.

I know I still don't know shit. Which means I know something, but not enough to help anyone else yet.

[BookerT316]

Leave it to Booker to bring a thread back on-topic... wait, what?

Yes, I can stay on topic sometimes....LOL but thanks.....

[darkheath]

being ignorant of their actual ignorance prevent any real knowledge.


This is an incredibly true idea. Nice quote, MS. And it applies to SO many things, not just religion. Fox "News" viewers come to mind. *thumbs up*