2K may have sparked more controversy to come
by 
The first questionable decision from 2K Sports that was sure to cause debate was the inclusion of OJ Simpson in the game. That one made for reasonably balanced discussion and both sides had solid arguments.
However the latest thing to come out of All-Pro Football 2K8 really can not be defended. In one of the recent screenshots, a stadium for the team called the Indians was shown. Included in the stadium were tepees on the sidelines and a giant bear wearing face paint. That certainly can be interpreted as being offensive to Native Americans.
Click the thumbnail below to see the full size screen of the stadium.
This ties in somewhat with the choice to pay OJ Simpson to be on the legends roster. That was not necessary, as the game would've done just fine without him. However someone decided consciously that, despite the potential for a negative reaction, they should do it anyway.
Here either an individual or a group brainstormed, and ultimately others agreed, to name a team the Indians. Then they decided to add in the unique elements related to the team name such as tepees and a big bear with face paint. This when they easily could've come up with another idea for a name and mascot to use. Yet they chose to go with this, obviously well aware that it had the potential to create a stir.
In real sports leagues, there are Native American related names that have drawn some protest, however there hasn't been strong support behind those movements. This is because those teams have deep and rich histories and generally do a good job helping to promote awareness, have a positive relationship with and contribute to the communities. No comparison can be made from naming a fictional team in 2007 to real teams named so many years ago.
Some examples: Washington Redskins (1932), Kansas City Chiefs (1960), Cleveland Indians (1900), Atlanta/Boston Braves (1871)
There is simply NO chance that an expansion team or one looking to change its name would ever be allowed to take upon one such as the Indians. The time has passed from when it was seen as acceptable, and there is no reason that they couldn't choose an alternative.
Now, I am not someone who pushes the PC line, actually I'm far from that. However the team name combined with the stadium features goes beyond something that can just be brushed off. With the way the stadiums are shaping up, we aren't even aware yet of what (if any) animatronic elements will be there or or other things such as the stadium's name, music specific to it or crowd chants. It could get even worse as those details and the full experience of the stadium is not known yet.
One has to wonder after seeing OJ paid to be in the game, and now this move, if 2K isn't seeking out the free publicity that could come from such controversies.
It seems only a matter of time until the demands and protests make their way into the media. And in this case, I think they will be justified in doing so.
June 13, 2007 at 2:00 pm
damn you hate this game… OJ is a killer but he beat the case which makes him not guilty. OJ is a legend so he belongs on the game, why would he be??? This game has a theme on it that is indian based, OK??? All the teams you named are american indian based and they still exist, and people cause a fuss over it… but nothing happens. Me being of black and american indian decent had to say something about this because I think you have said this crap more than once (not to mention the Jerry Rice/ET comment). When it comes to race bro, leave that ish alone because you are not gonna come off like you think you are gonna come off. People are going to the store right now and buying an Atlanta Braves fitted hat… Or Clinton Portis Jersey and it means nothing. My mothers of the family has been fighting that american indian cause for years on deaf ears, so stop.
when you play EA’s College 2008 will you mute the TV when Florida State does the chant or would you be affended??? I could go on and on…
Shoeprint
June 13, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Again, as stated, using real life teams as justification does not work. Look at when they were founded. Not in 2007.
June 13, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I think the fact that this is fictional makes a big difference. If it was a real team, then no way, but the fact that it’s fictional gives them a bit of an out: How do we know that it’s not built on an indian reservation and funded by the indians?
June 13, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Yes, this could cause controversy… but to me, you have to be looking for a fight if you want to get upset over the game. I don’t see APF as having the purpose of offending anyone…
OJ is in the game because he is a football legend and they used a lot of stadiums with general themes. Yes they could have left out both, but I think we worry too much about offending people.
When I think of 2K making an Indians team, I think of it as a way for someone to make a replica Redskins team. It seems like the other stadiums can easily match up with existing teams. Such as, the Beasts could go well with the Giants or Bears and the Jet stadium goes with…well, the Jets.
I highly doubt 2K meant to offend anyone with this, but I could be wrong. If you are offended by what APF is doing there isn’t much to do but contact 2K and then not play the game.
June 13, 2007 at 10:15 pm
There is no way that they should have included the use of Indians…period. It makes no sense for them to do this. Look at all the contriversies surrounding the NCAA right now, just by using a team name such as “Indians” would raise controversy even if there wasn’t the teepees and painted bears.
First off, all the stadiums look idiotic. I read a couple days they wanted to create a game that was realistic, a genuine football game. Now they are producing stadiums that look like this, the demons, or any other team. I don’t even want to imagine what a team like “Pirates” or “Cowboys”. What, are they going to have a giant pirate ship (this was a small shot at Tampa Bay) or walls of saloons?
I’m sure the Native Americans will find this offensive, and that is what matters. People who aren’t in their situation have no idea what it must be like for them. They could interpret things totally different from the way non-Native Americans do.Try to view from their viewpoint.
June 14, 2007 at 6:26 am
You have got to be kidding me Manny, and all of you who go on the PC train. For years, the Illini have been backed by their local tribes, and the NCAA still puts them on the “ban” wagon. Florida State helps the recognition of the Seminole tribe of the state, but the NCAA does the same thing.
If this is true, why not got the whole nine yards? Why not ban the Fighting Irish because their name is a stereotype of the Irish? Heck, why not ban team names all together, since they could be offensive to real Cowboys, or like me, a Texan? I’m not offended by Houston’s NFL team name because I’m a Texan, so why should anyone else be?
It’s the new liberal culture, and it’s spilling into video games. Make it stop somewhere people, or your lives will become duller, and you’ll miss this great game when it hits the shelves.
June 14, 2007 at 6:30 am
its just stupid, this whole fuss over this game… everything is wrong with this game before the ish even drops in July… after reading the pasta padre about page, it all makes sense…
******Bryan Wiedey aka “pastapadre” worked on staff at the MaddenNation.com website and subsequently SportsGamer.com beginning in 2004 before leaving in June 2007 to concentrate fully on Pastapadre.com******
I hope you are getting paid for pumping up EA, because a website w/ info on games should be bias… unless this is maddennation.com pt 2. Its your site and say what you will… but now it makes sense why you bash stuff thats not EA.
June 14, 2007 at 6:31 am
exactly brent… im done.
June 14, 2007 at 7:15 am
I dont understand why people keep bringing up team names from real leagues/colleges. That isn’t relevant here. Those teams weren’t named within the past couple months. Those teams have established a history with their names.
Here we have a fictional league that they could’ve selected anything to use for names/logos/ect. This is the year 2007. They are creating something new with no sense of history. Yet they chose to do this despite that. Really just baffles me.
June 14, 2007 at 9:07 am
you are getting to deep w/ this… its not that serious… so you are saying if it has history than it cool??? that doesnt make sense, what if the team is called the native bears??? you dont even know yet… It has a bear with face paint, why is a bear or whatever there??? why isnt there an indian there??? Chill cause you are making NO SENSE. Have you heard of Negro League Baseball??? there was a team called the Atlanta Black Crackers… Does that affend you??? the team wasnt named after burnt crackers. look up the history on that, do you think that would fly in todays world??? But… It has history?!?!
shoes
June 14, 2007 at 9:35 am
Some of these arguments make no sense.
Yea there are some backing for SOME of the teams, but that is because those colleges you named have the Indian tribe on their payroll. So many of the teams who had Indian mascots have changed their names over the last 5-6 years. Only the big schools like Florida State, Illinios, etc. have kept their names. Tribes outside the Florida State and Illinois boundaries have publicly said they are not in favor of keeping the mascot.
You are failing to come at it from the Native American’s view. They have been trying to get past the whole painted face, teepee living, peace pipe image that has been painted for them. 2K shouldn’t care what you think about the stadium, they need to think of the Native American’s, and how they view designing a stadium like that.
Pasta is right about the history, as some teams will never change their mascot (Redskins, Seminoles, Illini, etc.), but as it is such a heated debate now, it was irresponsible for 2K to do this.
The Black Crackers team name means nothing. That was 70 years ago, and back then a team name like that was accepted around the African Americans. Using the Indian name is not accepted today, so 2K dropped the ball.
About the “liberal thinking”. How would changing a team name from “Indians” to somethng like “Tide”, “Pilots”, or “Angels” make the game less enjoyable? It wouldn’t be offensive, and 2K could avoid this whole problem.
The FIghting Irish argument doesn’t make sense. That is not offensive to the Irish, Notre Dame is based off the Catholic church, and a large amount of the student body is Irish or from area’s that have a large Irish contingency. The use of Indian names offends the Native Americans, so it shouldn’t be used.
June 14, 2007 at 11:44 am
my father sells negro league gear… here’s what black cracker means through wiki:
Origin of the team’s name
The origins of the team’s name are unknown, according to Tim Darnell, who wrote The Crackers: Early Days of Atlanta Baseball [6]. He cited three theories during a talk before a University of Georgia audience in 2002[7]:
It may have been a shortened version of the name of a 19th century professional baseball team, the Atlanta Firecrackers.
It may have come from the now sometimes-derogatory nickname for poor, uneducated white Southerners, often specifically Georgians, and with equally obscure etymology.
It could be a reference to a then-colloquial term for someone who is quick and smart, a variant on “Cracker Jack ballplayer”, for example.
While the “Georgia cracker” is the most obvious association, it raises a question as to why a Negro League ball club would have called itself “Black Crackers”.
know you ish duke…
June 14, 2007 at 11:48 am
Let me ask you this, getting off the argument over whether or not its appropriate.
If you were making the game, would you have done this? Or would you have been sensitive to the issues and chosen to use a different team name/theme?
June 14, 2007 at 11:59 am
man, if i would have made this game… w/ no franchise, I would keep ish basic because it will affend somebody and thats just how it is. If you made a team called the pink flamingo’s gays would get mad… You cant win, 2k is w/ take two and them cats are always are in trouble… you just cant win… someone will catch feelings.
June 14, 2007 at 12:52 pm
pastapadre used to work for madden nation.
June 14, 2007 at 1:15 pm
and? If you’re inferring what I suppose you’re inferring that doesnt surprise me.
If Madden had made this move, I would’ve done the same article.
June 14, 2007 at 1:28 pm
So what if Padre used to work for Madden? What does that have to do with him not liking the theme of a fictional team?
June 14, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Edit: …used to work for Madden NATION….
June 14, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Pasta’s no EA lackey. He’s had no problem criticizing EA and Madden in the past, and I’m sure he will in the future. That argument on this issue is a non-starter.
2k was stupid to use “Indians” as a team name and then include all kinds of stereotypical crap in the stadium, but I imagine it was just to generate a little stir about this game. Any press is good press when you’re trying to regain a foothold against Madden and you don’t have an NFL license.
June 15, 2007 at 7:20 am
Hey Pasta,
Seriously who gives a shit about Indians and there feelings? I sure don’t. You can probably count the amount of Indians one one hand that will buy this game.
Indians can boycott or protest until there blue in the face and it doesn’t mean jack. Thats the God honest truth to because there are just not enough of them to matter. If every Indian in the US decided not to buy 2K football then it wouldn’t effect sales one bit. Unless we are assuming they all have PS3’s and Xbox 360’s on the reservations. The flat out truth is no one else cares. I’m Irish, why the hell would I give a flying F**** some Indian is pissed off? I don’t.
Look at Notre Dame. They have a dam druken Irish Leperchaun as their Mascot who likes to brawl. Do you see the Irish crying? So the Indians got a raw deal back in the 1700’s, they got slapped around and got their land stolen. Oh well they should of defended it better. Hostile takeovers by act’s of war has happened all over the world long before it happened to the Indians. It happened to the Irish many times. It also happened to the Native Australians before the British decided to make Australia a Island prison.
June 15, 2007 at 7:38 am
I guess none of you have even looked into the game anyways, because you can change the name if you like.
The whole point is, where does it stop Pasta? Where do we say the line is on naming things? Yes, they have traditions, and the NCAA is still banning home games in the playoffs for Florida States and Illinois.
The fact is, if you don’t know how to be an unbiased journalist, you need to stay out of the business. You can change names, and you can choose not to buy it either. Opinions and actual news do not mix sir, and that’s where your blog is heading.
NOTE: Manny said: “They have been trying to get past the whole painted face, teepee living, peace pipe image that has been painted for them.” So when the Europeans got here, were they wearing business suits praising the Queen?
June 15, 2007 at 8:16 am
Regardless of how you or I personally feel on the issue, its more about why would they tempt contoversy like that?
“Opinions and news do not mix”. Says who? I’d say readers disagree as some of the most popular gaming news sites have the opinionated edge to them. If you expect me to just regurgitate news or post links to news that isn’t what you’ll find here. Theres other places that you can go for that type of info.
June 15, 2007 at 8:19 am
and just to show that even random media types notice the same thing…
http://www.uniwatchblog.com/?p=515
“Pretty surprising that they’d have a team called the Indians.”
And thats not even taking into account the surrounding elements.
June 15, 2007 at 10:52 am
Pasta, that is a uniform site, not the PC headquarters. Even then, he has still backed behind Cheif Yahoo when the Cleveland Indians keep putting him on hats and sleeves.
But I’m glad your opinion doesn’t matter as much as mine doesn’t matter, because in the end, we’ll still buy the game, and All- Pro will hit the shelves.
June 15, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I can’t believe the stupidity (and outright racism/ignorance) in some of these comments. Attacking Pasta because he worked for MN? Calling him biased? Seriously, get a damn clue people. This was an excellent write-up on a game that has continued to show the people behind it are loopy.
Pasta and Manny have made a very valid (and logical) point that real teams who have potentially offensive nicknames have created those names well in the past. There is no circumstance today that would allow a team to get away with it. For 2K to create a team called the ‘Indians’ and then fill their caricature/idiotic looking stadiums with offensive stereotypical BS is beyond ridiculous.
Between telling fans to just ’shut up and play the game’, paying OJ to be included in the game, and now this, they certainly aren’t going to win over many new fans. That’s not even including the fact that their player models and animations look like everyone’s got a stick up their ass…
June 15, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Ray Lewis beat his murder charge too… But what? He’s different??? OJ has been charged not guilty… Point blank. All these cats going to jail now in current times and do you wanna ban them from the game… Ban Jerry Porter! Hell no.
And the Irish dude is funny as hell… because he is talking crazy from behind a computer. Disrespecting is one thing that no one has done yet on this blog, that is dumb and I cant even be mad at him.
the facts are the facts