Madden 10 Online Franchise Q&A

by pastapadre
Posted June 9th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

madden10haynesworth

The latest blog posting for Madden 10 offers an Online Franchise Q&A. Questions were submitted via forums and Twitter in regard to the mode. Given that this is a brand new endeavor this is a good opportunity to find out some additional info on it and get a better understanding of why certain decisions were made. Read through the full posting here.

So this week we wanted to take the opportunity to answer some of the most common questions that we’ve been seeing from the community and from the gaming media. Not everyone has a 100% clear idea of what all is included in the mode, and we have also noticed that some folks have expressed frustration over missing features. With that being the case, we felt it imperative to explain a.) why we made the decisions that we did and b.) our plan for the future developing on this new platform.

It looks like a lot is going to fall on having a strong trustworthy commish. That does allow for many of us to get the full experience out of the mode. I still hold a lot of concern for people joining public leagues or with ones that will die out due to an unreliable commish. In its first year Online Dynasty for NCAA Football did incredibly well due in part to being invite only which took out much of that uncertainty by limiting the chances people would run into poor experiences.

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62 ResponsesLeave a comment
  • Willy2535
    June 9, 2009 at 10:13 pm
    Reply

    woo am I 1st, stoked lol

  • Julian1030
    June 9, 2009 at 10:16 pm
    Reply

    blehh, i just don't know what to think of this no salary cap, no contracts, no FA.. seems like it might be possible to never see a player change teams in 10 years.

    • Mr_EA_Sports
      June 10, 2009 at 1:29 am
      Reply

      Exactly who will drop a good player? Ever? When you can just hold onto them until they retire.

      • pastapadre
        June 10, 2009 at 1:35 am
        Reply

        Which is why the groups of people will have to come up with some system that requires good FA's hit the "market" every year. Maybe each year you require every team to leave a certain number of players "unprotected" or something along those lines.

        • Amen Ra
          June 10, 2009 at 2:17 pm
          Reply

          Face it Pasta the Online Franchise is garbage right now. Hopefully they can improve it.

      • Jay
        June 10, 2009 at 7:21 pm
        Reply

        The more thought I give this, the more comfortable I am with living with the lack of FA. Obviously it's not ideal, but it might actually be kind of fun with the right group of friends in online franchise. My Madden 10 experience will be a throwback to the pre-FA/pre-cap days of the NFL where teams who drafted well (like the Steelers) could build and sustain a dynasty.

        • Skihawks
          June 10, 2009 at 7:35 pm
          Reply

          Just because the online franchise doesn't have an automated system to cap players and free agents doesn't mean it is broken. I would prefer user freedom and control over a system that could be broken.

          I applaud EA for not implementing a potentially broken system that would turn everyone off to using the online franchise. Leaving the cap, etc., out allows for users to create their own system, which is a pretty good alternative until the developers can put in a solid cap / FA system.

        • Skihawks
          June 10, 2009 at 7:36 pm
          Reply

          Just because the online franchise doesn't have an automated system to cap players and free agents doesn't mean it is garbage. I would prefer user freedom and control over a system that could be broken.

          I applaud EA for not implementing a potentially jacked up system that would turn everyone off to using the online franchise. Leaving the cap, etc., out allows for users to create their own system, which is a pretty good alternative until the developers can put in a solid cap / FA system.

  • WWOFTBBNR
    June 9, 2009 at 10:33 pm
    Reply

    Here's part of my post from the EA site, figured I'd just copy/paste instead of re-typing.

    All that said, I have to say that I'm quite disappointed in the online franchise. First, not being able to edit players; You mentioned selective editing – as long as I can change equipment and jersey numbers, no worries. But if I can't change equipment, things could go sour in a hurry. Second, not having players leave teams is unacceptable. You Madden guys KNOW that one of the biggest weeks of the NFL season is the opening of free-agency. Just ask Albert Haynesworth. To have players with indefinite contracts is game breaking. It takes away the strategy of owning a team. Although lack of trade logic sucks, it's not that big of a deal if the commish polices things. To remedy no contracts, the commish basically has to do more work than a fantasy league commish does. I'm glad there's online franchise, but I really can't get excited about it with all of these glaring flaws.

    • Mr_EA_Sports
      June 10, 2009 at 1:27 am
      Reply

      I was cool until they said "We are actively looking at a robust, live bidding free agent type feature for the future, but a lot depends on the priority you all (the fans) give us on each feature once you get your hands on online franchise."

      The salary cap is an integral part of the NFL more so than any other sport. So I still can not fathom how this should be a feature that we should get on our knees and beg for. He should have just said that there are complications and that they are working on fixing them not that we should beg for a main facet of the game. That statement by the EA team implies that they can fix it but choose not too.

      • Amen Ra
        June 10, 2009 at 2:17 pm
        Reply

        Exactly My Friend!!!!!

  • D Trout
    June 9, 2009 at 10:46 pm
    Reply

    when are goin to see more madden 10 gameplay videos Pasta?

    • Koach_Vonner
      June 10, 2009 at 4:44 am
      Reply

      He already gave us a bunch. He seems to be pretty busy. I'm pretty sure he'll get them up when he can.

  • william30
    June 9, 2009 at 10:54 pm
    Reply

    when are we going to get the ncaa 10 demo?

  • sdot
    June 9, 2009 at 10:55 pm
    Reply

    PASTA do U kno if Iu can choose wut uniforms U wear in SSTAR mode

    quik Y or N

    o yea

    IF ur NOT 1ST ur Last

  • Willy2535
    June 9, 2009 at 11:03 pm
    Reply

    im looking forward to being able to play the franchise online with my mates but it sounds like it still needs some polishing before the game comes out, and they still have 2 months anyway so we'll see how it works out

  • Marvis
    June 9, 2009 at 11:12 pm
    Reply

    Pasta,
    Could you ask them if they are going to add at least one more feature into online franchise post launch with an update? If they are I am definitely pushing for Salary cap F/A if at all possible.

  • Dre2778
    June 9, 2009 at 11:36 pm
    Reply

    After this announcement I'm opting out the League that I joined.

    • Mr_EA_Sports
      June 10, 2009 at 1:31 am
      Reply

      I feel for ya. I don't think it's that bad I just think that if they can fix this major issue then fix it and don't require that people beg for a major facet that was left out purposely of online franchise.

      • Dre2778
        June 10, 2009 at 2:18 am
        Reply

        Well if it gets resolved by the time the games is released then I'll resubmit.

  • jon
    June 9, 2009 at 11:39 pm
    Reply

    my ass hurts

    • fas carl
      June 10, 2009 at 6:00 am
      Reply

      no homo fagg lol

  • Amani
    June 10, 2009 at 12:06 am
    Reply

    I didn't realize that position changes are not in the game as well. That isn't good. This is still a broken franchise. Did we find out if you can take the franchise offline to do the salary cap, free agency, position changes, etc … and then bring it back online? I also wonder which changes they will implement server side once the game is out. They made a great effort but I feel Madden 2011 will be the complete game as it should be.

  • alex
    June 10, 2009 at 12:23 am
    Reply

    they do this on purpose….get the fuk outta here with they had no time….how many years have we asked for this…maybe we should have been more specific…wow ea….ur a piece of shit….i wish ppl wouldnt buy ur shit…then ud have to add it…anyways i got a VERRRYYYY GOOOD QUESTION……is there a probowl in online franchise…n who plays it lol….n do players have there own helmets for probowl game.

    • Mr_EA_Sports
      June 10, 2009 at 1:18 am
      Reply

      That's actually a pretty good question. Since they didn't mention it I bet that they haven't included it

  • Mr_EA_Sports
    June 10, 2009 at 12:51 am
    Reply

    Looks good Pasta at least they are not running away from the problem. I'm still a little disappointed in the lack of salaries and a true representation of free agency. He did give an alternative and showed that a lot depends on your commissioner. Also he mentioned that if people create enough noise then they might concentrate on that particular issue after the release date. So Pasta it's time to make as much noise as possible to implement a salary cap online before it's too late and they tell us to wait for next year.

    EA WE NEED AN ONLINE SALARY CAP!

  • alex
    June 10, 2009 at 2:09 am
    Reply

    wow…we have to beg to get salary cap….EA ..ur a piece of shit..u better extend the license cuz wen 2k comes back..i hope they buy the license n get rid of ur shit game….ur a fukin rip off…..let me guess…thats a new featire next year…improved online franchise wit salary cap….oh n new probowl helmets…..wat else….teambuilder…..EA can make the perfect game..they choose not too..so they can take ur money every year…It to bad ppl r prolly gonna still buy ur piece of shit game…as it gets closer to release i find myself gettin less excited…all i want..is to be able to play co op on same console wit a buddy n play ppl online like nba live n nhl 09….play wit a buddy next to u ..can u do that?…god EA..u need to hire me.. cuz u got stupid fuks workin 4 yall.

  • Quan
    June 10, 2009 at 2:09 am
    Reply

    Too bad you got to wait till next year to get everything in Online Franchise since they couldn't get everything in.

  • DaveDQ
    June 10, 2009 at 2:29 am
    Reply

    Ouch, a lot of hate. I'm pretty pleased with what's coming in Online Franchise. I agree too on the commissioner of the league needing to be on top of things. Already people are creating leagues and asking who wants in etc.

    It just never works when you approach it like that. There's no reliability in it.

  • Dave
    June 10, 2009 at 3:28 am
    Reply

    It's not an online franchise unitl they add contracts, salary cap, and free agency. I don't buy the excuse that they didn't have time. Couldn't they have hired more people to get all of these things in? I'm seriously considereing not buying Madden until thos three things are added. I knew I shouldn't get too excited about the online franchise because I know EA is great at disappointing people. I should have known better.

  • Julian1030
    June 10, 2009 at 4:07 am
    Reply

    Im just not understanding what is wrong with AT LEAST copying the offline franchise salary cap/FA into online. Even a less intelligent system is better than no system at all.

  • Koach_Vonner
    June 10, 2009 at 4:52 am
    Reply

    WOW, no contracts and Salary Cap? Are you kdding me. That was going to be one of the best parts of Online Franchise. Trying to create trades amongst your peers in the same league. Now I hear that we are stuck with the same players you start with. What if someone gets the Browns or something. In a true FRANCHISE an owner can turn them into a power house. However, in Online Franchise you are just stuck with them?

    That's not cool at all!!

    However, I will still buy this game cause it is going to kill NCAA 2010. That game sounds horrible so far!!

  • Koach_Vonner
    June 10, 2009 at 5:04 am
    Reply

    I also am concerned that you can't edit players. Now I for one am not a cheeser. I'm not the type of guy to put Randy Moss at "QB". However, I do like to spat my players up, change the shoe color, put on visors, add dredlocks (for those that have them), put tight sleeves on certain players etc… I do understand their point about people changing positions cause that would piss me off too. But I want to be able to edit uniforms. PASTA what can we do about that. MAKE SOME NOISE PLEASE!!!! I know it seems minor, but that crap matters to me and other people too.

    • Jay
      June 10, 2009 at 11:55 am
      Reply

      Cheesing aside, there are plenty of valid use cases for changing positions in franchise mode. Like when you trade for or sign players from one defensive scheme to another.

      Changing a 3-4 OLB to a DE in the 4-3
      Changing a 3-4 DE to a DT in a 4-3 (think what the Giants have done with Chris Canty)

      Or moving hybrid type players around to the position they will actually play in your defense:

      CB/S tweeners like Saints rookie Malcolm Jenkins
      LE/DT tweeners like Adam Carriker and Jason Jones

      • Koach_Vonner
        June 10, 2009 at 11:18 pm
        Reply

        Thats a great point and I feel you on that. The thing is, everybody out there may not play like you and I. Its people out there (little kids) who abuse that feature for bad, not good. Trust me though, I understand where you are coming from.
        Roy Williams (Safety) from Dallas who is now with the Bengals is another good example.

  • Julian1030
    June 10, 2009 at 7:49 am
    Reply

    So what happens to the guy who is stuck with the Detroit Lions? Just has to hope he drafts well?

  • crosby04roy
    June 10, 2009 at 8:35 am
    Reply

    since madden is only a month after ncaa i am just going to keep playing my ncaa online dynasty untill they fix "what we prioritize to be the biggest problem." I mean no salary cap, cpu trading, or free agency, itll basically be just a 10 year 160 game season that cycles out their players after they play 10-15 years. I'm just going to wait untill they fix some or hopefully all the problems to play my franchise. Gotta give them props though they did deliver what we asked and if they do fix these problems, we might actually be able to say they came through this year…

    • Koach_Vonner
      June 10, 2009 at 11:22 pm
      Reply

      You're brave to just stick with NCAA. That game is not going to be that good. It seems to play just like 09.

      • crosby04roy
        June 11, 2009 at 6:23 am
        Reply

        I'm just talking about franchise wise. no point in starting a madden franchise right off the bat and den they change it all

  • Mr_EA_Sports
    June 10, 2009 at 1:13 am
    Reply

    …after thinking about it why do they need us to speak up to add features to a game that EA knows should already be included? After 20 years of making a game you think they should know that the people want a true simulation of football not a watered down version. I remember when they added the 1-button mode like anybody who has played Madden more than once will actually use that feature. EA knows that we want a real passing pocket and run block intellignece those are just basic staples of football. They could scout a Pop Warner team for simple basics like that pass blocking and run blocking. So why bring it now after popular demand and then hit us with demanding more features otherwise they won't add them?

    It's not hard to tell whats coming next after they see all of the comments and message boards light up and create publicity for the game they will hit us with an hint about an added feature slightly after release to promote sells. I saw your last message board on player ratings Pasta and it had over 1000 comments! Congrats to you Pasta but I'm sure that EA is watching as well as they use their new marketing strategy of holding the sauce until the last bite. Then they will hit us with the lack of fixing issues due to working on next year's edition.

    I'm starting to linger towards EA just making a game once every 2 years and give us download content in between disc.

    I apologize for coming off obtuse but it seems like an assault on people's intelligence when they say that they can fix the problem but we first have to beg for changes.

  • Mr_EA_Sports
    June 10, 2009 at 1:16 am
    Reply

    …after thinking about it why do they need us to speak up to add features to a game that EA knows should already be included? After 20 years of making a game you think they should know that the people want a true simulation of football not a watered down version. I remember when they added the 1-button mode like anybody who has played Madden more than once will actually use that feature. EA knows that we want a real passing pocket and run block intellignece those are just basic staples of football. They could scout a Pop Warner team for simple basics like pass protection and run blocking. So why bring it now after popular demand and then hit us with demanding more features otherwise they won't add them?

    It's not hard to tell whats coming next after they see all of the comments and message boards light up and create publicity for the game they will hit us with an hint about an added feature slightly after release to promote sells. I saw your last message board on player ratings Pasta and it had over 1000 comments! Congrats to you Pasta, but I'm sure that EA is watching as well as they use their new marketing strategy of holding the sauce until the last bite. Then they will hit us with the lack of fixing issues due to working on next year's 2011 edition.

    I'm starting to linger towards EA just making a game once every 2 years and give us downloadable content in between disc's.

    I apologize for coming off obtuse but it seems like an assault on people's intelligence when they say that they can fix the problem but we first have to beg for changes.

  • Mr_EA_Sports
    June 10, 2009 at 1:33 am
    Reply

    …after thinking about it why do they need us to speak up to add features to a game that EA knows should already be included? After 20 years of making a game you think they should know that the people want a true simulation of football not a watered down version. I remember when they added the 1-button mode like anybody who has played Madden more than once will actually use that feature. EA knows that we want a real passing pocket and run block intellignece those are just basic staples of football. They could scout a Pop Warner team for simple basics like pass protection and run blocking. So why bring it now after popular demand and then hit us with demanding more features otherwise they won't add them?

    It's not hard to tell whats coming next after they see all of the comments and message boards light up and create publicity for the game they will hit us with an hint about an added feature slightly after release to promote sells. I saw your last message board on player ratings Pasta and it had over 1,200 comments! Congrats to you Pasta, but I'm sure that EA is watching as well as they use their new marketing strategy of holding the sauce until the last bite. Then they will hit us with the lack of fixing issues due to working on next year's 2011 edition.

    I'm starting to linger towards EA just making a game once every 2 years and give us downloadable content in between disc's.

    I apologize for coming off obtuse but it seems like an assault on people's intelligence when they say that they can fix the problem but we first have to beg for changes.

    • Willy2535
      June 10, 2009 at 1:43 am
      Reply

      mr speaker i second that motion lol

  • Jay
    June 10, 2009 at 11:48 am
    Reply

    I don't get how salary cap and CPU trade logic could be missing. They have them in Offline franchise. I understand that pushing the franchise logic to the server side may require porting these modules to a new platform or technology stack. But couldn't they at least hack something in there, perhaps running a trade evaluation service in a virtual machine (emulating the platform that offline franchises run on) and have the franchise server talk to it to evaluate trades and FA contracts.

  • Rezluk
    June 10, 2009 at 2:09 pm
    Reply

    exactly doesnt make sense at all

  • Phototropic
    June 10, 2009 at 2:19 pm
    Reply

    This just went from a must buy to wait and see. I don't get why at a minimum we wouldn't have contracts and salaries to help us manage players, even if they don't mean anything. Also there is no good way to manage CPU teams when you have to cut and sign all their players for them. Hopefully they surprise us with something.

  • Alex
    June 10, 2009 at 3:48 pm
    Reply

    wowwww, no salary cap,and the player stays with the team forever…
    Thats just inexcusable.
    If thats the cause wheres the fun in that? There will never be a challenging concept behind
    making your team better because there EA didn't include a salary cap

  • anonymous
    June 10, 2009 at 7:55 am
    Reply

    Guys they probably don’t add certain features so they can add it in next years game and say that’s the new feature, imagine if madden was perfect, it would be great but no one would buy it year after year if is already perfect, that’s y they implement these new things so they can cal it a “new” feature.

  • Mr_EA_Sports
    June 10, 2009 at 4:20 pm
    Reply

    It's amazing to me how EA goes about doing things. I know that they do not watch the games except for ESPN highlights because a lot of good players have mediocre stats while well known players have phenomenal attributes. I like the new rating system but you have to play it true all the way or it's just another flawed system. McNabb is the strongest QB how do I know? Because I seen the McNabb lift over 500 pounds. His short passes leave much to be desired but his deep ball is unquestionably very good. So EA fix the a ratings to truly represent players. Any person with decent vision can see that Brady doesn't have a stronger arm than both Manning and McNabb or JaMarcus Russell. JaMarcus Russell can throw a football 70 yards on his knees yet his arm is weaker than Brady's in Madden LOL. Accuracy is one thing but you have to take into account to who Brady is throwing to on those deep throws. Brady has a 6'4" Moss who catches everything, when McNabb had T.O. his percentage went sky high as well. EA if you need someone to sit down with you and break down film (not ESPN higlights) just typical football plays my door is always open

    As far as the online franchise EA you blew it. Asking a commissioner to govern 31 teams on every single player is madness. I'm not a prognosticator but I see a lot of confusion and complaints coming after release in relation to online franchise. The worse part about it is that the game looks good and the offline franchise was fixed to a degree. It's not really online franchise it's more like online season as no team will ever drop a good player. I was looking forward to taking a bad team and turning them over into a perennial winner now what's the point? If you have a team like Philly you are set for 10 years as they are good and young at every position while if u have a team like NE you have a 2 year window as they are pretty long in the tooth. If you have Detroit you might as well not even participate as you are stuck with a bad franchise for 10 years.

    • Dre2778
      June 10, 2009 at 5:53 pm
      Reply

      I agree with everything you have just said. That was one of the reasons I dropped out of my online franchise because there are so many variables involved. Since Brady has Moss everybody has risen him to god-like levels and clearly anyone can see Moss wanted to be with a contender so he is motivated to play. But when he was with Oakland he quit because he didn't want to be there. Put Moss in Philly and you'll see McNabbs ratings on Madden god-like as well.

      • Mr_EA_Sports
        June 10, 2009 at 8:30 pm
        Reply

        Exactly you have to call a spade a spade Brady's arm is good but it is not on McNabb's, P. Manning or Russell in regards to throwing power on the deep throws. Not even close. I see so many flaws with the rating system it's just plain ridiculous. I truly believe that the EA developers look at stats and watch ESPN highlights when determining player ratings. They need someone who watches football objectively and understands how football players are suppose to play. Some teams ask their "mike" LB to just shadow a TE all game and so they receive a lot of stats in the tackle or sack department but they do their job effectively well. On the other hand you have a guy like S. Merriman who freelances every play and can only go after the QB yet because he puts up 10+ sacks a year he has unbelievable player ratings. The best way to determine how good a player is is by looking to see how many plays they run towards their side. Normally in my offline franchise i adjust the ratings accordingly to matchup to what they "actually" do on the field but with online franchise this year the ratings matter even more.

        • Koach_Vonner
          June 10, 2009 at 11:31 pm
          Reply

          Thats GOLD Mr. EA Sports!! Well written response.

        • Mr_EA_Sports
          June 10, 2009 at 11:40 pm
          Reply

          Actually I messed up when I was referring to the "mike" LB i meant to say-"does not have high stats". I was trying to make the point that some good football players are ask to just eliminate a certain part of the opposition so they may not receive a lot of stats but are highly effective football players

  • Calvin Brinkley
    June 10, 2009 at 5:49 pm
    Reply

    Lol at so many people complaining. It shouldn't be that bad. They already gave us a scenario that could work out pretty well. Just need to make sure you have a good commissioner in your league.

  • Skihawks
    June 10, 2009 at 7:40 pm
    Reply

    I understand everyone's plight but why can't the team owners and the league commish come up with their own system? It happens in every fantasy football league, the lone difference is this fantasy football league is done with virtual players.

    I hardly think that the game lacking a cap / FA system is going to ruin online franchise for those that are truly interested. I think EA allowing the users freedom to develop their own system is a good way to go if they aren't certain the system they would implement would actually be a positive experience.

  • grey
    June 10, 2009 at 7:53 pm
    Reply

    Well on the bright side…the guy did say that it is based off the EA Servers Online…which was done so they could continue working on online franchise mode. Meaning that they will be able to implement things even mid season. While there is no excuse that a large company like EA could not have enough manpower to get something done due to time constraints, perhaps the outcry for Contracts and FA wire will have them working feverishly towards rectifying some of our problems with this mode

  • JB0B0
    June 10, 2009 at 8:06 pm
    Reply

    I doubt they patch this up….EA left it out so that they can say "Madden 11's online franchise has a salary cap and player contracts." It'll be funny when no one buys their game and Ian gets fired…..the guy is a nutcase anyways, he shouldnt be the lead designer…he knows nothing about football

    • Koach_Vonner
      June 10, 2009 at 11:36 pm
      Reply

      I have to disagree with you on that one. Ian has given us alot. Do we need a Salary Cap, and FA? Heck yes we do. But to say Ian is a nut case and fire him. Hell NO!!! Dude he has worked his tale off to get us a lot of stuff. The gameplay looks great. 80% of America is looking forward to this game way more than NCAA. He put in a lot of little things. Think about the lead designers in the past. They didn't give us anything we asked for.

  • alex
    June 10, 2009 at 8:45 pm
    Reply

    man…i wish no one would buy this piece of shit..id like to see wat happens….them bitches said they had no time to put in a salary cap…lmao ..wat a load of donkey shit lol..r.i.p. online franchise….cuz it just died….EA is just 1 big dissapointment…they r good at gettin ur hopes up…then smashing them to the floor….the cover is also a piece of shit….way to ruin tradition…..maybe just slap the entire vikings team next year on the cover…horrible…EA….IF U PUT A SALARY CAP…..U SERIOUSLY HAVE A 10 STAR GAME….THAT NO ONE WILL GET TIRED OF TILL MADDEN 2011……..n u screwed up…n i promise u lost a few costumers just for not addin sumtin so small….A FUKIN SALARY CAP……IF ITS IN THE GAME ITS IN THE GAME….BULLSHIT….BULLSHIT…FUK U EA….FUK U……SUCK A BIG FAT ONE..

  • xXI_SKINS_IXx
    June 11, 2009 at 4:06 am
    Reply

    well it is a free country,u dont have to buy the game.

  • Legend
    June 12, 2009 at 2:10 am
    Reply

    All online franchise will be is the same season over and over again so boring with no transactions, can I even pick new coaches? I want to feel like a GM if Im playing franchise, thats what its called right NOT ONLINE ARCADE MODE. Without salary cap, contracts, no good free agents and no trade logic IT SUCKS! This should not have even been put on the game until next year if it's totally useless is all I'm saying! Ncaa imports are a important feature for me too, but this should be addressed last not a major issue. They really dropped the ball on this one Im so mad right now, but what can I do but boycott Madden.

  • aaron
    June 12, 2009 at 8:25 am
    Reply

    well at least they have pro tac hahahaha …..never fails with madden and im sure once this thing is released its gonna need some patches cause ….tada… the morons that make the game didnt test it out good enough .but hey at least they have pro tac…. lol what a joke

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