The Fate of NBA Live as a Franchise Will Be Determined Soon

by pastapadre
Posted September 17th, 2012 at 9:30 am

The idea of a delay to NBA Live 13 would have been just about the worst-case scenario for EA Sports when planning for the reboot was being done. The company knew they would not be able to sell the game in its first year back with such an entrenched competitor on the market so the goal instead was to create some awareness and reestablish at least a modicum of credibility. The building process for the series – which one could point to the FIFA and NHL as those that made comebacks despite the odds – would then be underway.

Unfortunately EA was not even able to clear that low bar. Early reports were largely negative and the company went silent about the game choosing not to promote it or even acknowledge it despite information being discovered…some of which they still won’t even admit to or explain. Footage of the game leaked and only cemented those earlier impressions and being slated as a discount digital download did not generate any positive vibes. Instead the spiral downwards continued even beyond what anyone could have anticipated at the outset.

Live has not only become irrelevant but is now a punchline. The decisions that EA Sports makes within the next few weeks and months will be telling as they’ll provide clear indications as to whether the series will be dumped on the market and the series canned for good or if they still have a long-term plan in mind.

A delay and eventual release would potentially be worse than a total cancellation of this year’s title if EA still intends to continue to the series. They’ve already let down a number of fans – the few who remained – but the majority out there have no idea really of its troubles or even existence making a cancellation and return next year less harmful. Continuing to make promises that aren’t met or failing to live up to even the lowest of expectations with a release of Live 13 would essentially bury the series for good even if the company wanted to continue it. There just is no coming back from that.

The digital download idea is one that screams desperation and a poor quality effort. It’s not something that would be done in an attempt to move towards the future but instead because EA feels they have no other choice. They’d be attempting to reach out and sell the game to those who already bought NBA 2K13 or those that aren’t big enough fans to spend $60 on basketball. Either or both segments of consumers are not going to be able to support a title like Live with the costly resources that have been put into it.

EA’s Tiburon studio is in a significant state of trouble with NBA Live, NCAA Football, and Tiger Woods all struggling to survive with very little opportunity for growth even as they sink further. Madden is the only stable franchise there and even that is dependent on the NFL’s exclusive license which is currently set to expire after Madden 14. Live is just the most immediate problem to handle. Whether EA decides to dump Live 13 on the market and wash their hands of it or if they really dig in to try and rebuild for the long haul will become evident within the next month.

Tags: latest news

Keith.

Put a fork in it.
- Riposte
  
  Don’t think NHL should be in that list.
  - Keith.
    
    Here’s why NHL is on the list — we’ll have to wait a bit on NHL 13 (though the early $49 sales are not encouraging):
    
    NHL 11 (360): 521,397
    NHL 12 (360): 460,426
    
    NHL 11 (PS3): 338,209
    NHL 12 (PS3): 292,863
    - Riposte
      
      I thought we went over that the $49 sale was for just about every game that released that week on Amazon. Amazon does that for just about every new game that comes out. It’s Amazon’s main draw.
      
      That said, I think NHL shouldn’t be considered as on the chopping-block. It’s one of the Big Five sports in North America and it’ll always have a market/audience.
      - Keith.
        
        You may have convinced yourself of that, but not me.
        
        Think Amazon will chop $10 off NBA2k13′s price just 2 days after release? If you do, you’re delusional.
        
        And btw, you can now get NHL13 for 360 from Amazon for $45. Probably because of the same downward trend that was present for NHL 11 and 12.
        http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_3/175-0562379-8869558?url=search-alias%3Dvideogames&field-keywords=nhl+13&sprefix=nhl%2Caps%2C147
      - Amen_Ra
        
        Amazon sells lots of things for cheap. Their pricing structure really can’t be used to determine the value of a product.
      - Keith.
        
        You can now get NCAA for $39 from Amazon (on 360). If it were selling through the roof, I guarantee that wouldn’t be the case.
        
        Again, wait and see what happens with NBA2k, which likely won’t see any major price reductions until Black Friday.
      - Riposte
        
        Except games that do sell through the roof have price-cuts. Kingdom Hearts 3DDD, one of the bigger releases of the summer is down to $39.99. Darksiders 2, another anticipated game is down to $48 and another game released the same week in August (Sleeping Dogs) is also $50.
        
        For fuck’s sake, a few games that aren’t even out yet are a dollar off. According to you that means Capcom thinks Resident Evil 6 won’t sell well. Ubisoft doesn’t think Far Cry 3 will sell well.
        
        Amazon is not an indicator of sales, it slashes prices for the consumer. Do not treat Amazon price-cuts as the absolute indication of bad sales and do not treat Amazon reviews as the word of god.
    - http://twitter.com/shady2529 Anthony Suriano
      
      I sure hope they don’t kill off NHL, that’s one of my favorite series’ from EA. Aside from that, yes the numbers are going down, but I don’t think you can just point to sales with certain games with microtransactions invloved. If even 50% of those 400,000 buyers are purchasing HUT packs, EA’s making much more than sales numbers show.
- Keith.
  
  For anyone interested in NCAA’s dismal sales, here are the latest numbers (through 9 weeks):
  
  NCAA 12 (360): 485,386
  NCAA 13 (360): 431,004
  
  NCAA 12 (PS3): 378,342
  NCAA 13 (PS3): 332,987
  
  Ouch! Almost 55,000 fewer copies sold on the 360 so far this year, and more than 45,000 fewer copies sold on PS3.
  
  If this kind’ve pathetic showing doesn’t get Hamburglar and company fired, nothing will.
  - Amen_Ra
    
    I like NCAA, don’t know why it gets so much hate. Madden ain’t that bad this year either, but they need to fix the AI and soon. Plus taking out so many options was stupid.
  - Ghoti34
    
    Aren’t sales declining industry wide? Any relative comparisons to the sales of other console games that are released on a regular basis? Not making a case for EA, just curious.
    - Keith.
      
      Sales for The Show this year were higher than they’ve ever been on PS3, and sales for NBA2k have gone up each of the last 3 years.
      
      Quality sports games sell. Tiburon’s get price-slashed.
      - Skopin
        
        Can we have a comparison of NBA 2k’s numbers the last 3 years vs the overall sales between Live and 2k the previous year?
      - Riposte
        
        MVP Baseball 2005 – 1.26m units in North America
        MLB 12 The Show – 0.70m units in North America
        MLB 06 The Show – 0.78 units in North America
        
        Sales are going down. Higher than they’ve ever been on PS3 =/= Higher than they’ve ever been for the franchise.
        
        It should also be noted that last year the Show did its worse performance (.46) since SCEA added on the subtitle. Only game in the franchise that did worse was MLB 2002. (.24)
        
        If MLB The Show: 2011 survived that. Then no sports title should quite be considered on the chopping block.
        
        Source: VGChartz (http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=MLB&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200)
      - Keith.
        
        Huh?
        
        I’m comparing last year’s NCAA numbers on 360/PS3 with this year’s numbers, and you want to compare The Show’s 2005 numbers on PS2 — a system that sold 150 million — with this year’s PS3 numbers? Makes no sense to me.
        
        The bottom line remains this year’s Show has outsold any other on PS3, including last year’s (and the year before that, etc.). In other words, the Show’s sales numbers are on an upward trend, while NCAA’s continue with their decline. Not sure why you want to keep defending Tiburon, but them’s the facts.
      - Riposte
        
        The point I was making is that the sales have gone down, entirely as a franchise. It should make sense to you. The Show did better in 2005, then it did in 2012, or 2011, or 2010. You denied that sales are declining industry wide. I showed you that they are, even for sports games.
        
        The sales are in an upward trend, but last year it was at the lowest point since 2002.
        
        NCAA is on decline but I still want a college football game, and a professional football game and I think that Madden in terms of quality is on an upwards trend (NCAA I actually skipped purchasing this year due to financial problems).
        
        I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. People happen to defend things they like.
        
        “Quality sports games sell. Tiburon’s get price-slashed.”
        
        So why didn’t The Show 11 sell well?
      - Keith.
        
        Beats me. The common complaint mentioned in reviews was that it looked too much like the year before. I disagreed, but the market spoke. This year, the same market spoke again with the highest sales numbers in franchise history (on PS3).
      - Riposte
        
        I agree, these are the highest sales numbers in franchise history on a single console and close to the highest sales have ever been, but are still below that of the PS2-era, which shows that sales are down in the long-term.
        
        Quality doesn’t necessarily sell is what I’m getting at.
      - Daniel Kinkaid
        
        Remember that more people had PS2′s then PS3′s. Factor in the PS3 user base, and the numbers between 2005 and 2012 are about equal.
      - Riposte
        
        That’s a very good point, as is the price increase from $50 to $60 for new video games, but there’s still a .5m unit separation between MVP Baseball and MLB 12 The Show. We could also attribute some of the sales to time, but I don’t think all 3 of those factors denies the point that sales are decreasing.
Drebo

Been an done deal… I wish Ea would bring more espn 2k5 into madden since Football and hockey is all the franchise has because Basketball is a Vlade Divac FLOP!!!
- http://twitter.com/CSaintSwag Caleb
  
  I remember playing ESPN 2k5 the crib thing was all cool but when I would play a game i would break 12 tackles before finally getting tackled. I dnt remember what difficulty i was playing on but still even on rookie that shouldnt happen.
  - Mr. Harris
    
    You’re talking out of your ass and you need to shut the hell up with that stupid nonsense. Nobody with a brain believes that idiotic statement, but you. How old are you again, son?
    - Drebo
      
      U talkin to caleb right… Either way no need to sit here and troll about the internet… Nfl 2k5 had me sold off presentation and pruce it was a very well put together game and that cant be contested… They lit a fire under tiburon studios which led to them getting 2he monopoly contract…
    - http://twitter.com/CSaintSwag Caleb
      
      I’m not talking out of my ass sir, what I stated happened I wouldn’t even stiff arm juke move or spin to break a tackle they just wouldn’t tackle me. I had it for Ps2 and I didn’t like it but I’m sorry if I make your feelings get hurt just by simply saying something about a game. You are asking me how old I am when you are sitting their getting butt hurt over my opinion of a game lmao.
JRut

Wow, EA just come out and publicly say 2k is better bury Live please!
- http://www.facebook.com/makin.edwards Makin Edwards
  
  Hell they already have
http://www.facebook.com/people/Shadi-Ibrahim/100002336524312 Shadi Ibrahim

Personally I’ve always been a 2k guy. I’ve played it since I was young on the Dreamcast. I played NBA 2k5(when Live was still best) and I got into basketball 2k6 and on. I’ve played it every year since.

I still became a basketball guy, I like any basketball game out there, even if it’s not that great. NBA Live 07 was horrible but, I thought Live 08 was a decent alternative to 2k8 but, ofcourse at a $20 price tag.

People like me would probably buy LIve 13 down the road if it were it a cheap price tag but, 2k13 has just destroyed any competition. Not by locking up exclusive wrights but, by delivering the best product out there.

They got the dream team, they got Iverson, they got Barkley. The main complain will prbably be Reggie Miller but, I can deal with having him created on the 2k share. I really think they went all out this year and they will reelease the best sports game on a next gen console come 2k13.

As for Live? Time to go back to the drawing boards. Don’t be lazy, get a new engine and over haul it. Live 13 is basically Elite 11
http://twitter.com/philsites Phil Sites

Look at the NHL – a great deal of success and the toppling of the NHK 2K series can be attributed to the international league licenses. Don’t underestimate the value of these. I’m shocked nobody has thought to make the videogame version of NBA more global (considering the NBA’s willingness itself to be international). Run with the Eurobasket license (EA has these rights since the last couple iterations of Live I believe) and start including the Euroleague and maybe some other prominent international leagues. All of a sudden you’ve opened up your game to many thousands of potential buyers who want to run with their club team, whether the actual game is really any good or not. At least you’ve then got something 2K hasn’t, even if the gameplay is still lacking…
- Riposte
  
  That’s a good solution, but an expensive one. I’m sure at some point in the next gen, someone will buy that EuroBasket license.
- marvin
  
  euroleague, daz enough… there is simply no good basketball league out there. Spain, Greece, Italy? Yes, two good teams in each league, daz it… Germany? hahaha oh dear, nobody wants that (I say as a German )… But EuroLeauge is a really good Idea. Would never play it though…
http://www.facebook.com/people/Kian-Key-Davis/1270510167 Kian ‘Key’ Davis

EA should scrap every game except NCAA Football, FIFA, and NHL. The rest SUCK!!!
- Phil Shannon
  
  NCAA football is just as bad as madden. I only buy NHL, FIFA and NBA 2k. I love football and I watch the NFL every sunday, but the game is crappy. I never watch the NHL and I buy it because it is fun to play and a great game.
yo

all ea has is fifa if that
- Phil Shannon
  
  ea, pro evolution soccer is looking good, they just dont have the rights to all the leagues like EA. I am a FIFA and i am used to the game play so I buy that because to mee it seems better, but Pro evolution is gaining ground on it
http://twitter.com/Starfoxleon The Great Leon

Bury it like Atari did with E.T.
td

Hey EA, keep up the hard work. I really enjoyed the trailer and the screenshots you have released so far. In my opinion, the game is looking good. I have always liked the look and feel of your NBA games. Just because I’m not on here commenting everyday doesn’t mean I don’t care. I know you guys have a plan and I am anxiously awaiting the release of NBA Live 13. Just know, there are many fans that still love this series.
- sam
  
  shut the fuck up… keep playin nba jam…
- Rob
  
  Daley’s cousin.
Sniper

The ONLY reason Madden has hung on this long is because of the exclusive license. If it weren’t for that Madden would suffer the same fate as Live. After ESPN 2K5 football EA knew they could not compete with 2K, that’s why they got scared and went out and got the license and paid a ton of money in the process. They actually tried to do the very same thing with the NBA but thank God the NBA was smart enough not to give it to them. I certainly hope the NFL comes to their senses and doesn’t grant EA the license again.
- http://twitter.com/DawsonTwoSeven Ryan Dawson
  
  If I remember rightly, the NFL prefers to do exclusive deals, hence the Reebok (and now Nike) uniform deals (Wilson, Nike and Starter all used to contribute). I don’t think EA necessarily pushed for exclusivity, they were just willing to pay more for it.
  - Phil Shannon
    
    yea, I am pretty sure that is part of the reason ea wound up with exclusive rights to it.
- curtis jackson
  
  I think the only reason madden is in such a bad state right now is because they didn’t have competition. If they never got the exclusive license i think they would still be around and the game would be significantly better, they would just have to fight for sales
  - Riposte
    
    Then we’d better hope Live sells well, or else NBA 2K could suffer in the next gen.
- Riposte
  
  Funny enough, people don’t remember 2KSports did the same thing with Major League Baseball, the difference is they signed a third-party exclusivity deal that still allowed console manufacturers to develop games (and it was a smart idea, up until that point SCEA’s MLB sold terrible compared to MVP and 2K). It bit them in the ass however when SCEA took the initiative and merged two of their old sports studios into one, where they started to make NBA: The Life and MLB: The Show. The Life, like Gameday and Quarterback Club, couldn’t keep up with Live and 2K. MLB however stood out with their emphasis on analog stick controls.
  - http://www.facebook.com/makin.edwards Makin Edwards
    
    After the fact in fear that EA would do the same, They let their competition exist showing courtesy to the market
- http://www.facebook.com/makin.edwards Makin Edwards
  
  Its cool 2k stacking their chips for next gen, hopefully NFL comes to and realize they can make more money in competition
http://twitter.com/itswiz Wiz

Any real sport-gamer knows NBA Live died October 1999. The month NBA2k was released on Dreamcast
- http://www.facebook.com/bishoparvinpresents Nebraska’s Own Bishop Arvin
  
  I been trying to tell people that. lol. Every since 2K came out I stopped playing Live.
  - http://twitter.com/itswiz Wiz
    
    I haven’t played Live since. None of my friends have.
- Phil Shannon
  
  yea, I have been playing it since I got nba 2k1 for dreamcast. It seems like a long time now, but 2k sports were great on the dreamcast for the time
- http://www.facebook.com/makin.edwards Makin Edwards
  
  Exactly Madden, Would of died in 2007 if they didnt have exclusive rights
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Iown-You/100000775565221 Iown You
    
    Nah, Madden IS dead and so are the brains of the people who keep supporting it.
- 49ersfan1
  
  nice
Jamison B.

Pasta–why do you think the nfl license ends after madden 14? I thought it is supposed to end after this upcoming Super Bowl?
Yup

Dirk
Weareallfools

Who do we have to contact in the NFL so they don’t sign that exclusive deal with EA after madden 14?
xLOSx

NBA Live is dead!! If they really wanted to make change they would have by now. They should sell their game as an arcade game for 800 points. Pull an old 2k Method. But they wont cause EA too greedy and think everything they make is top tier. Face it and delete whatever guys are so called developing this game.
Hungryandrew

NBA DEAD 13
monnyb

$20bones…i’ll grab it just because. yeah yeah yeah. live sucks. its all been ran thru the grinder over and over. alot of yall are whalin hard tho.u waste $20beans on fastfood and so on. yet u wouldnt buy live 13…yeah rite.
isai32killem

Live Is bomb I love the game if they just released it as is I would go and purchase it off tops…
#RealLiveFan
isai32killem

I feel EA is basketball and 2k is football nd tht how it should be point ____.
Daniel Kinkaid

Simple solution: Bring back Visual Concepts to run their sports franchises.
daley7199

And exactly who are they so called “fans” you speak of that were let down Pasta. I swear Pasta, WTF happened to you. You used to have integrity but I guess you didn’t have what it takes to withstand the 2k fanboy onslaught. Try going on the EA forum for NBA Live and you will see that the fans aren’t let down. Maybe you are let down but then again you have become a 2k cronie so it doesn’t really matter. Next gen consoles will be out next year so it doesn’t really matter whether live 13 is all that or not. You seem to forget that Live fans loved Live 10 and most live fans liked what they saw in elite. Only 2k fanboys and yourself didn’t seem to get it.

EA is progressing the technology forward which will take some time to get up to speed but they have a huge head start on 2k which has yet to show any signs of abandoning their tired and true canned animation system. EA might be down today but they are in a much better position for the next wave of consoles. NBA2k will eventually diminish itself to the ranks of MLB2k, a once heralded franchise that can’t even hold the jock strap of MLB: The show. That will be the fate of 2k in the coming years. Just like with NHL2k, NBA2k will just go away and Live will regain the crown. How much longer do you think 2k can keep getting away with canned animations when EA is perfecting their real physics engine. Madden, NHL, FIFA all have it and it is much touted. 2k is great for now, but its getting old real fast.
- So sad
  
  Stone Cold says “What?”
- HPlasterjet
  
  Fans of basketball want their games to look like real basketball. Really a case and point, and most people get that feeling of real basketball when they play 2k, or even people that don’t play the game and see it, agree that it looks like real basketball. That’s been 2k’s point and if they can get non gamers to believe the game looks like real basketball, they’re doing their job. Also, 2k13 is bringing more physics, I dunno, looks to me they’re working on stepping up.
- bane
  
  I want live to be “up there” with nba 2k too.But throwing money for cancelled products is not a “progression” like you said. They should not even bother with elite or nba live 13 and focus on a next-gen engine that will be better than 2k’s.
  
  I think you’re dreaming.
odog

nah, nah, nah, nah.
nah, nah, nah, nah.
hey, hey, hey.
GOODBYE……..