1UP justifies SCEA’s pulled prerelease support with MLB 08 review
March 19, 2008 by pastapadre
Back in early January I wrote an article regarding how a few companies had decided to no longer provide 1UP/EGM with prerelease copies of their games. The companies in question felt that they were not being treated fairly and that they could go to other outlets instead. This wasn’t a case of trying to buy off reviews. Instead it was simply wanting their titles to be treated with the proper level of respect. There is obviously no way to stop them from reviewing the game however they weren’t going to provide them with the copies to do so.
One of those companies was SCEA who produces the MLB The Show franchise. Last year 1UP gave MLB 07 a ridiculous 5.5 which was the lowest score the game received. While people will concentrate on the low score the text of the review was riddled with misinformation and factual mistakes.
1UP has just posted its review of MLB 08: The Show giving it a score in their new rating scale of a B-. That equates out to a 6.7 per their system (of C=5) which is how Metacritic converted it. That is the second lowest score given to the game with only the embarrassing 6/10 from X-Play coming in below it. No other media outlet has even scored the game below an 8. Believe it or not this makes it two straight years that The Show is rated lower than 2K’s franchise by 1UP. This year MLB 2K8 on the PS3 got a 7.5 from them. Lets take a look at some of the points made in the review.
Sliding into a base kicks up a convincing cloud of dust, but it comes from a brown basepath that doesn’t really look like dirt. Wrigley Field’s ivy-covered walls look fine when seen from afar, but as the outfielder approaches, all that foliage looks more like bad wallpaper.
I really don’t even know what to say to this. That a one page review goes and cites these type of things early on is a sign of things to come.
lackluster commentary detracts from the whole experience. Sony brought in a professional sportscaster team anchored by San Diego Padres play-by-play announcer Matt Vasgersian, but they sound almost bored and isolated in their parts, as if they were recorded in separate studios.
If The Show’s commentary is “lackluster” I wonder how 2K8’s would be labeled. At the very least they call the Tampa Bay Rays by their name and didn’t just cut out the word “devil” and splice the remaining audio back together (as 2K8 did). The commentary is actually excellent and is often cited as one of the strong points of The Show.
But it’s unnecessarily small, compressing the movement of the meter, and even for ace pitchers it moves so fast you’re just stabbing at the buttons rather than getting in rhythm with the motion.
What??? Seriously, if you can’t handle the feel of a pitching meter maybe playing a baseball game isn’t for you. It has always felt natural timing wise going with each pitcher’s motion.
To make matters worse, even nailing the perfect release doesn’t guarantee results. This is where that pitch meter comes back into play. A pitcher who’s lost it on a given pitch won’t put that pitch where you want it no matter how well you groove the meter….While your pitcher is doing well, the system succeeds at giving you a sensation of accurate location and control….But when it starts to unravel, it falls apart completely. Give up a run and your confidence takes such a hit that every pitch suffers. Make one mistake with the touchy meter and a pitch can be rendered nearly unthrowable.
Ironically the meter is being knocked here for making it difficult to spot pitches at times. The opposite is the usual argument, so far as 2K determined they needed a whole new system to try and replicate the sometimes erratic nature of pitching. Please, if anyone has ever experienced the inability to control their pitches completely in the Show, speak up. I don’t expect anyone will.
Could this review be retribution on 1UP’s part? Possibly, but it’s hard to believe they would’ve given the game a fair review regardless considering their history of overall poor reviews for all sports games. So kudos to Sony for taking a stand and not putting up with the mistreatment of The Show. This review from 1UP just proved it was the right decision.
When it comes down to it MLB 08 The Show has two areas where it could really use improvement. Collision detection and online play. Funny though that they weren’t even mentioned as detractions in the 1UP review. In my assessment other than those two things the game shines as one of the most enjoyable, deep, and well made sports titles ever. So if I were to grade it out I would look at those downfalls, how much they meant to me, and measure that against everything else. In the case of online play (as disappointing as it can be at times) MLB 2K8 is actually worse in that area. So while the game isn’t perfect, it’s clearly the best baseball game available despite 1UP and X-Play trying to convince otherwise. If you haven’t already checked it out make sure to read my MLB 2K8 vs MLB 08: The Show comparison article.
I, for one, recognize that reviewer scores are nothing but one person’s opinion. However, I also recognize that many readers look at these reviews which can impact on whether or not they either purchase, rent or ignore a game.
Eski wrote:
there is no way anyone as a baseball gaming fan can play the show and come out giving it a low score like that. it can’t even be opinion here. either the person doesn’t like or understand baseball (which they shouldnt be reviewing it then) or they are showing a bias against the show/sony
My My My - a little over defensive?
The Show has generally got good reviews. Some people don’t like it. That’s life. You could spend the rest of your life rebutting critics reviews point by point for any sports games from any publisher
Many things I’ve read on this site, and others, regarding MLB 2K8 are patently false or extreme - you learn to let it go
As for Sony withholding pre-release copies - well that’s just foolish. If they didn’t think they were getting treated fairly before, that kind of arrogance sure puts a target on their back now. Of course they try and butter their way to a good review with pre-release copies, that’s what they all do. What do you think all those developer conference calls are for, the EA community days, the “hands on” previews??
Let’s face it - most game reviewers/sites are not ever gonna set the standard for Journalism 101. Rushing to the defense of Sony because of someone’s opinion doesn’t make this site look particularly objective or even handed either
I wouldn’t take it so personally Pasta. Clearly the Show review and the 2K8 review are only scratching the surface. These guys don’t look at these games with the kind of die-hard approach that you or many other baseball gamers do. It is really as if they throw the game in when it hits their desk, they play with it for an afternoon or so, then write a review. It’s almost as bad and inaccurate as the “first impression” threads that pop up at OS and elsewhere, and there’s always more to a game than first impressions. But these guys, they don’t know or care about skill levels, sliders, etc. You know from all your sports gaming experience that you just can’t do that with this type of game, especially baseball. So it is what it is.
Sedihawk wrote:
I wouldn’t say I’m taking anything personally, I’m just generally perturbed by reviews. In this case there is clearly more in play with the EGM/1UP & Sony dynamic which is interesting.
It’s just amusing to me that a game that needs multiple patches just to run as it was advertised it would gets rated higher by 1Up and X-Play. Hell, the PS3 version isn’t even going to get the framerate patch and that’s the version which is being compared to The Show.
Both 2k and The Show have so many ticks and frame errors I cant play it… They havent got baseball right since Ken Griffey on SNES. Thats why I can only rent those games and not buy them because I would not play them that much, I feel like im playing Madden online when im offline w/ next gen baseball games
I have played both games and feel that they both clearly have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. I liked the Show’s commentary. Personally I like turning off 2k’s commentary and turning up umpires all the way and use my own custom tracks. Both games coulda been alot better…
Are u nuts (mlb 08 the show) runs at a consistent 60fps in 1080p resolution with no slowdown at all.Unlike mlb2k8 the show beats it in every aspect gameplay, presentation,features, and graphics it’s so obvious u can’t even have a opinion on it. It’s like comparing who is hotter jessica alba or whoopi goldberg,and say whoopi is hotter then jessica then u are retarded.U are seeing things that are not there (mlb 08 the show )is the greatest baseball video game in history point blank.mlb 2k8 is garbage unplayable 2k sports has no excuse for it.
These guys at 1up are a bunch of idiots, there babies, they don’t get a copy of the game early so they bash it. I own both games and 2k8 needs more then work, it needs a whole new face lift. The guy is completely wrong about Wrigley, he must just want to tarnish the game in anyway he can, fir that, I think 1up is crap, thats my opinion.
Exhibit A in the Case of “There Is No Rational Argument on The Internet”
See Gerson Ruiz post above
shoeprint wrote:
Wow- I was pretty sure the show it the smoothest, best playing baseball game I’ve touched since MVP 05-you sure you’ve played the show- no frame rate errors for me.
Honestly, I am a huge fan of baseball, played baseball through college, and still play to this day- and I have to say the show is mighty impressive. If you actually know baseball there is no way you gve the Show 08 anything less than a 9.0. There are a few silly things that happen, but that game is OUTSTANDING in every aspect. I bought a PS3 for that game, and only that game–that is saying something.
MLB 2K8 isn’t even on par with an N64 baseball game- and I was a somewhat fan of 2k7 (thought things were headed in the right direction). The game is just terrible.
1UP is probably trying to make some sort of point because they think they are special. Game review sites are jokes- I imuch prefer smaller independent sites like Pasta’s.
Without a question, MLB The Show 08 is a better baseball sim than MLB 2K8.
But I agree with CrimsonVoodoo, you are a little defensive. Even though I enjoy most of the content on this website, you always seem to have a slight grudge against 2K Sports games, Pasta. For example, you made a post a couple days ago berating 2K for releasing MLB 2K8 with its flaws which I can agree with. But, it doesn’t seem that EA Sports got the same harsh criticism from you in regards to Madden 2008.
Josh Schmidt wrote:
Ha, well you must not have been around when I was writing on what seemed like a daily basis about the terrible online play for NCAA and Madden, and the non-functioning EA Sports World features for Tiger Woods.
I think I’ve been very fair towards 2K8. I really wanted to like the game, I provided varied and steady coverage on it. 2K8 was going to be where I played a lot online (I talked about that and the cards a lot leading up to release) but with the horrible experience they delivered there it didn’t turn out that way. Unfortunately online for both has been at the least a disappointment so I’ve switched priorities to Road to the Show mode. When you’re going back and forth between the two games the quality of one really stands out over the other.
I find 08 the show as an updated roster and graphics game only. this is cus i could not care less about online and RTTS. i only play franchise and it’s exactly the same cept a few different GUI changes. This is SAD! I find 07 the show much better in pitching because the pitch speed is slower then 08. 08 is pathetic. they made it WAY to fast even at 0 setting. meaning bar totally gone. the ball has no details at all in 08 and the ball has detail in 07.
what i like better about 08 the show over 07 is the graphics and that’s it really. it offers absolutely nothing new in the franchise! how pathetic of Sony to not even freaking touch franchise.
I have to say that a B- for the game is pretty pitiful, but I also have to completely agree with the pitching mechanic. I’ve watched a lot of baseball in my life, and seen pitchers get into some really tough spots and get out of them. Sure, there are some who struggle, but I’ve seen Josh Beckett walk 2 guys, give up a hit, and still get out of an inning. In the show, you make one bad pitch, give up a single, whatever, and you start throwing like you’re on drugs. It’s really pretty ridiculous, and unrealistic and frustrating. It also does seem as though even when you throw a perfect pitch, your pitcher will not locate properly. I don’t know if this is meant to happen because no one is perfect, or what, but it can be frustrating as well.
That being said, that’s the only flaw I can find in 08. I tried the 2k8 demo on 360, and I have to say, it was awful. The fielding was clunky and frustrating. The pitching mechanic was so difficult and unintuitive, I wanted to throw something through the wall. (I lost my first game 45-0 because of it). I mean the pitching mechanic so outweighed the confidence Garnett is talking about in 08, it’s incredible. You make one slight mistake with the 2k8 meter, and the batter hits it out of the park. The hitting was distracting having to pull back and swing (I spent more time thinking about pulling the stick back than the location and ended up swinging at everything). And the commentary is definitely not as good.
So although he has a point about The Show, giving 2k8 a higher score is the problem here. So so sad.
Any of you every leave the home?…maybe play a real game of baseball or lift some weight lol.
Yeah didnt think so.
I’ve found that people who bash mlb2k are people who get frustrated easy and go back to “simplified” controls. It’s a learning curve that most casual baseball guys suck at and dump on it. There are faults w/ both and the Show does many things well but nothing great. Whereas 2k makes me never want to leave analog controls the same way NHL08 and Tiger did…..
1st off - I really like the site, and it does a nice job and staying above the fray. Pasta, kudos to you for a nice site that always has fast breaking news
That said - it’s hard NOT to think there’s a bias when 2K releases a press release and you inject sarcastic commentary, and follow it up with a headline story that decries a bad review of The Show
As I’ve said before - 2K should be criticized for releasing a game that has a serious frame rate issue. The online component is surprisingly weak for a 2K title. However all these posts that go on about the game being “unplayable” and the like have either never played the game (most problems on the Internet could be solved when we invent On-Line Lie Detectors)or never took the time to learn the control schemes
That review does seem overly nitpick-y, I’ll say that. Whether it’s 1UP being butt hurt over Sony not giving them a pre-release, who knows? The game is scored far too low, IMO. Though, as I’ve said here before many times, reviews are just people’s opinions.
Lol. wrote:
Other than playing hockey since I was 8, soccer since I was 10, and baseball through college, no, I never get out of the house and I certainly never lift weights.
Thanks for the contribution there, Lol. You’ve got nothing better to do than post baseless criticisms anonymously over the internet, yet you’re going to question the lifestyle of others? Good work.
r00tabaga wrote:
You’re kidding right? Because I forgot that the choppy framerate, terrible animations, terrible announcing, terrible hitting engine, terrible fielding controls, and ohh yeah terrible frame rate again- had to do with me being a “casual” baseball game fan who can’t deal with the learning curve?
Did you mean learning curve to deal with a crappy game?
^^^ Just because u dont like a game doesnt mean its crappy.^^^
I don’t use the announcers so I don’t care about that. From what I played, I liked the Show. Besides the “obvious by now” framerate issue w/2k, you sound like you haven’t played the game at all and are reaching…btw, the animations and sigs are better than anything the Show has. I said they both need work tho…I just prefer 2k’s controls alot more right now………………sorry-
There’s no true convergence scale for a B- regardless of what Metacritic puts up — and using Metacritic as an argument point still is shenanigans to me but that’s a different argument — and 1UP has made that clear. A B- is a B- which seems to be in letter form still a good score.
I’m perfectly fine with this review because it’s just one person’s opinion as is any review. There’s no real “factual” errors in the review, and the person who did the MLB 2K8 review didn’t do the MLB ‘08: The Show review. It’s a different person than last year, and both Zuniga and Lee I’d say aren’t the most “hardcore” sports gamers. Zuniga does a good job covering them but he’s not overly good at most of the games and he makes that clear. Lee is more of a football guy from what I’ve gathered over the years but he’s a sports fan in general as well.
Either way I don’t think this is a way of trying to get back at Sony or SCE Sports specifically, and in general I don’t think 1UP’s sports review are unfair. You can perhaps think they are uneducated, but I think they just take a different and perhaps a bit more casual approach to sports games than many other publications.
But we’ve argued about reviews in the past and how Sony handled this situation as well Pasta so I think we just tend to agree to disagree on this front, which is fine with me.
DA Yankees Win wrote:
And just because you like it doesn’t mean the game is good! So where does that leave us? Opinions.
My TV is 1080i does that make a diffrence? both games are choppy, and I hate playing games that make my eyes water when i play them with all the frames flipping all over the place… My bro has the PS3 and loves that MLB08, but it look crazy to me also IMO. I done w/ the bashfest… I love 2K and EA but 2K8 MLB is trashy, you need 20/20 vision and patience to play that game.
As far as a online lie detector>>>
theshoeprint614 on xbox live,
we can play a choppy game or two LOL
Chase wrote:
They went and converted all their past reviews to the letter scores, meaning there actually is an accurate scale. 5-5.5=C, 5.6-6.1=C+, 6.2-6.7=B-, 6.8-7.5=B ect.
I’ve seen a lot of mentions that reviews are just opinions. Which is true to a certain extent. However an opinion would be fun factor, or that 2K8’s pitching is better than The Show’s, those type of things. An opinion isn’t someone struggling with and then complaining about a simple meter pitching system. Thats just ignorance and nitpicking. An opinion isn’t ignoring the smooth framerate, or in large part the gameplay and graphics. An opinion isn’t going into the game knowing you aren’t going to give it a fair shot. If this review was centrally based on opinion I could almost understand it, even though it would clearly out stand in the sea of positive opinions out there. Its just made especially interesting by the history involved and definitely curious on that front.
Yeah I’m no fan of this metacritic age, but thats what we are living with right now. So the importance placed on reviews is higher than ever. That is why people are looking for a certain level of responsibility to be shown.
Reviews are important to me b/c I bought NHL2k8 based on my past exp w/the series and when I saw the great reviews for EA’s game, I gave it a try and traded in my 2k that same night. IMO, baseball games are the most fun to play (out of all sports games) and I like where MLB2k is headed w/controls, sigs,etc. so after the patch comes, I will be completely satisfied this year…
r00tabaga wrote:
lol, this is funny to me, I know Pasta personally, and I can tell you, if anything, he is an Xbox 360 fan boy. He has both games, I know becuase I have played them both, on his system. So to you I would say, know what you are talking about before you say something dumb. Also, how can you praise 2k’s “animations” when the game craps on it self every time a ball is hit on the field. Animation equales images in motion, if the frame rate sucks, the ANIMATION sucks, so yea, great point dude.
pastapadre wrote:
They did convert, but they even said that many times before there wasn’t really a convergence, but due to pressures they made due, so I should have specified that.
If someone can’t handle a meter that’s not user error that’s just him having issues, and it’s not the first time I’ve heard someone struggling with the “simple” meter. Like I said before they take a bit of a more casual approach to sports reviews that perhaps to you or me is sometimes hard to comprehend, but I don’t think it should simply be discounted.
And still I think it’s unfair to say they weren’t going to give the game a fair shot. Like I said, Zuniga wasn’t even the one who did the review this year, even though he “lowballed” the game last year. This is a company with a very good track record in terms of editorial integrity, who has been stripped of game coverage and advertising numerous times in the past and hasn’t budged…So why they pick Sony Sports to pick a bone with is just not logical to me.
Metacritic has its own issues though because it averages out certain scores and gives them more weight than other reviews; thus Metacritic states one review is more important than another.
I would like to say that I learned something valuable from this blog post, but all I heard was, “BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, someone didn’t like a game I liked!!!!”
Someguy wrote:
You must have been on your elementry schools debate team. You are awesome! wow…………..
There is personal opinion then there is clear favoritism. Todd Zuniga over at 1UP and formerly of EGM magazine has been a 2k baseball homer ever since the franchise came to be.
He routinely torpedoed EA’s baseball game each year and he does the same thing with Sony’s product. Unfortunately what Todd doesn’t realize is that gamers have eyes, ears, and most importantly a functioning brain.
There is no surprise that 1UP’s review of the show is what it is. Intelligent gamers already know the deal. All 1UP and G4’s reviews accomplish is to certify there incompetence and lack of credibiltiy.
Anyone thay gives The Show anything less than an 8 is just a plain hater….PERIOD!
Some things are just FACT and not opinion! That’s like someone saying Jordan can’t play basketball or Prince can’t play a guitar. There are some idiots out there that would argue those points with an opinion and say Jordan sucked on the court or Prince is a horrible guitar player. But the FACT is that they both are GREAT at what they do and no one could ever argue that!
The Show is a great game, and that’s not opinion, that’s a FACT! Unless you’re a hater like i said!
Last post on this - promise
Dillfav - You must have played a special “extra-choppy” MLB2K8, because the one I own is certainly stutterrific during cuts scenes and replays, but from pitch to hit to throw runs at least competently. I read at another site an opinion from someone I respect, who had just bought the game. It basically amounted to WTF? he had assumed from all the strum & drang that the game was a slideshow, which it’s not. Lots of people are merrily playing the game in a very sim fashion and not burning 2K staff in effigy. Really.
Night Owl - thanks for playing into the zealot role so easily. Your post is the one that sums up what I don’t get - the CAPS and !!!!!!!! and the “haters” and the rest. Hey, some people DON’T like Prince’s guitar playing, and I’m not sure if you actually read the review the guy was all that harsh and saying the game sucked. He just didn’t fawn over it and call it the greatest thing since sliced bread, which seems to be a crime
Reviews, outside of whatever specs they provide, are nothing but opinions, and are legitmate. Some movie critics think Citizen Kane is overrated. Some music critics think the Beatles were overrated. Either way you may disagree, but it doesn’t make the other person’s view less true to them
Enjoy the game (whichever one it is) - no one’s opinion should stop you from doing so, and frankly, that’s all that matters. Or SHOULD matter anyway
other than gametrailers.com 1up.com is one of the worst biased pro-certain game developers there like the cnn and foxnews of video games and they dont hide their biasness either…
People who try and say 2K8 doesn’t have framerate issues and that it is superior to the Show clearly have no played the show this year. It’s that cut and dry.
I was all over Pasta before these games dropped forhis attitude on 2k, and I was standingup for 2k8 like it was my child–until I played both games.
Let’s break it down like this- I played the Show on PS2 before I bought my PS3 and the Show on that– and the PS2 version puts 2k8 to shame in terms of framerate and gameplay.
I’m an objective gamer- I love baseball- I choose the best baseball game on the market- I didn’t even buy a baseball game until 2k7 because nothing could touch MVP 08 in my eyes….I can honestly say that if you are posting on this forum that 2k8 is a better game/has no issues, then you fall into the following categories:
1.) You only own a 360 and are mad because you don’t have the option to buy the Show (completely understandable- but don’t hate the Show because of this).
2.) You are not a true baseball gamer (i.e. you probably never played RBI, Bases Loaded, World Series 97 for the Saturn, High Heat 2000, or MVP05).
3.) You haven’t played the Show (trust me- once you play it and watch it’s buttery smooth frame rate and tight gameplay controls-not to mention amazing animations, ball/bat physics, and outstanding computer managerial AI….then you try to play MLB 2K8 again it is a complete joke)
4.) All of the Above.
I’m a self proclaimed baseball video game expert- I’ve played them all since the NESday, and will go toe to toe with anyone that wants to debate baseball games. MLB 08 The Show is simply phenominal–I have NEVER played a baseball game that just feels like baseball like this years edition manages to pull off. MVP 05 will always be king to me, but I believe the crown has been passed this year.
To even defend 2k8 is a joke- and anyone who gives it a higher score than the Show loses all credibility right there. Sorry folks, but MLB 2K8 is probably one of the weakest baseball games I have seen since the N64 days. In fact, I popped in my copy of Griffey for N64 the other night for some comparaisons, and somehow that game runs at a smoother framerate, and has a tighter all around feel to it than 2k8.
Argue all you want, but true baseball fans/gamers will tell you the Show is a solid 9…anything lower shows a complete lack of knowledge in anything baseball video game related.
^^ I meant I MVP 05, and not “08″ when speaking on the best baseball games. Add an “edit” button pasta! haha.
The Night Owl wrote:
CrimsonVoodoo wrote:
You’re not getting my point. Maybe some people don’t like Prince’s style of playing, but to say he CAN’T play a guitar would be insane, that’s just like saying Lebron James CAN’T dunk. Some things are just fact and not opinion.
Bumble…
I’ve been playing video baseball games since the days of the original RBI Baseball as well as Baseball Stars on the NES. Through the years I’ve played the High Heat, Triple Play, All Star Baseball, World Series Baseball and all other series. So I know MY baseball.
For the record, I was a big fan of the All Star Baseball series as I like the player models and was pretty happy with the animations and the gameplay.
When that seres went up in smoke, I had to pledge allegiance to a new franchise, so Ibegan to play 2K baseball…and it was HORRIFIC!
Because of that, I chose to take a couple years off to let the games catch up wit the technology.
I was a big fan of MLB 2K7 as it was my return to video game baseball. Did the game have it’s flaws? Absolutely. But I was alble to look past most of them and I believe it played a solid game of baseball.
When I first loaded MLB 2K8, I was definitely disappointed that the graphics took a hit. I was also disappointed to see that I still could not play any team in a franchise mode. But I can honestly say that I’m not really having any major framerate issues (some from time-to-time).
It was difficult to accept and learn the new piching interface…but it is AWESOME. Nothing feels worse than hanging a meatball to Albert Pujols and nothing feels better than getting him looking on a 2-2 curveball.
On top of that, it’s my opinion that many people play baseball video games differently. I’ve yet to have one game that did not play out realistic and most of my scores tend to be in the 4-2, 3-2, 5-4 variety.
I’ve played the demo of The Show and it is a GREAT game…no question. But for me, I will take watching Tim Lincecum’s motion and release or Gary Sheffields bat waggle over the beach ball in the crowd. Again that’s my opinion. Also, I enjoy hearing “Crazy Train” play as Chipper Jones comes to the plate…or hearing Sinatra sing “New York, New York” as the anks win…a nice little touch.
In a perfect world, we would have a combination of both of the good aspects of each game, but until that day comes (which will be the day exclusive licenses ends), some people will prefer one game and others will prefer another one.
I dunno why people can’t realize this…it’s like the whole Madden ‘05/NFL 2K5 argument all over agan.
Chikiboy wrote:
I respect your opinion (even though I thought the All Sstar baseball series was pretty weak). Did you ever play MVP 05?? Probably the best baseball game ever developed. 2K7 was a good game, but had a lot of things wrong with it.
2K7-2K8 has nice signature anim